Grooming gangs. Where are the parents?

I agree to a point nanna as of course our priority is to all victims whoever they be. But its useful to have stats because it means, for example in the situation in places were Muslim abusers dominate on the groin front, we can target those communities in a positive way, ie, engaging with those communities, engaging with the leaders, fostering groups especially of women not so much to speak out publicly but to work on their own men for change.

Of course some won't feel OK to do this and that isnt good, but I know from just a local knowledge about support groups for women and girls to foster confidence. (I will give examples if wanted) As new generations come along there are more and more women who do this - have professional jobs and so on.

Oh my goodness, what a mess I made of that! Sadly predictive text writing "on the groin front" not "on the grooming front". Sorry.

I am afraid I don't agree, it is not womens job to fix the creepiness of some men.

OldFrill

Jimmy Saville was 84 and died after having pneumonia

He was probably still at it into his old age

Wyllow3

IMO thats deliberately targeting one group Mt61 to jump on an anti Islam bandwagon - which by the discussion above is clearly not the case.

I am not anti anything willow3. I come from an area where there has been grooming gangs- whether WB were involved I’ve never heard of any, but sure it goes on.

You’re right Galaxy, it’s time men were held responsible for their behaviour. Willow is right to say there needs to be engagement with the ‘grooming gangs’ families and communities.
I saw online a demonstration by members of their communities/families in support of men in court facing serious charges of grooming, rape etc. there were many women in the demonstration. They were hurling and chanting abuse at the victim witnesses. They called the victims whores. So - victim blaming in a big way

Galaxy

I am afraid I don't agree, it is not womens job to fix the creepiness of some men.

It may not be their job, I see what you are saying, but I feel a bit this is a bit of a one sided POV.
It strengthens and emboldens and builds confidence in women to take it on, I think it's a plus.

And was it not always the way? Did we not, as women, in the 1970's, build a movement to empower ourselves and try to take men with us for change? women together are powerful and we encourage each other to be out best and stand up to men when its needed.

And when Muslim women come into our surgery, and see a Muslin woman receptionist (who can understand and speak to them, if necessary), and they go to the Muslim doctor, and see they can take powerful roles, it that not empowering too? the receptionist wears a headscarf, the doc does not.

(Our surgery is aware enough to have chosen to do this deliberately of course, they are very good at providing this for those who do come in)

I think a lot of the girls were in care and I expect wayward as taken into care because of difficult home lives and hard to manage. The care system like everything else is chronically understaffed and anyway apart from locking the girls up which wouldn’t be allowed how do you stop them going out ? These Pakistani rapists obviously initially made the girls feel special and they thought loved then were trapped by drink and drugs and fear. Some girls were made to watch murders being committed and told the same would happen to them and their families if they told.

The girls who did live with families and were taken, some families did go to the police and were arrested for being racist.

If Pakistani families of these men had complained they would be beaten. It’s a very brutal society.

What I really cannot understand is why none of the Muslim elders and church leaders are speaking out and condemning these awful men.

I view it as another job for women to do, to be honest I think that genuine feminism cause extreme discomfort for many men, that's when you know you are doing it right

Always a balance, isnt it! .

I can't understand that either, Pippa. If a religion is good for anything it's good for advising people how to be good.

But CHAT GPT informs me this has been done.Pippa.

"The Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) has repeatedly stated that such crimes are "utterly unacceptable" and should be prosecuted without regard to race or religion.

Imams and community leaders in areas like Rotherham, Rochdale, and Bradford have spoken out in mosques, Friday sermons (khutbahs), and local forums to condemn the abuse and to urge cooperation with authorities.

Mufti Mohammed Amin Pandor, a West Yorkshire-based scholar, emphasized that these crimes have no justification in Islam and that the perpetrators are betraying both moral and religious obligations."

A religion is only as good as the people to practice it. The prophets and religious leaders who evolved the philosophy that attracted enough believers for it to gain the momentum to develop into a religion (a large renewing group of people who share a philosohy) and wrote the texts that are core to the belief system generally promulgate high ideals of good living (within the period and culture they developed in), but they cannot control how later generations and the individuals holding power within that religion will behave either on a corporate or individual basis. it is the same with any corporate structuren - and a religion is a corporate structure. But for a religion to hold control it has to have a socity that supports it.

Those women who shouted insults at the victims accept the same religious/societal norms as the men in their families. A strong sense of 'honour', a contempt for European culture and European life styles and a belief that they are better people all round - not that different from the way European colonial powers (and their populations) viewed the inhabitants of the colonies they ruled.

Precisely as MOnica says, I particularly agree with her final paragraph

I too agree with your post Monica. It says it all very succinctly.

MOnica
"paedophilia was a rare and uncommon perversion in any community, Christian, non-Christian, whether your skin was any shade from white to black and regardless of your fame and money until at least the 1970s. Accusations, prosecutions and convistions were almost unknown.

Hardly rare or unknown; ancient Greece was notorious for paedophilia; so was Victorian Britain, public schools etc. How about Catholic priests?

Until social media, most of us were probably scarcely aware of porn or the range of perversions.
I'm pretty sure all that went on a very long time before the 70's.

I also made the point about Victorian paedophilia, schoolmasters and Christian clergy on the other thread with reference to the enquiry and in particular how damaging to the Catholic church, cover ups and lack of transparency has done them no good at all. This grooming scandal has gone on far too long and needs to be addressed. We can't do anything about the ancient Greeks and their predilection for young boys, you are right I'm sure all societies suffer from it to a geater or lesser extent. It should not be tolerated in our midst whatever the guise it takes.

butterandjam you have chosen to deliberately misunderstand me. The part of my post you quote must be read in the context of the whole paragraph it is contained within plus the one before and the one after and that makes it perfectly clear.

I assume it was a deliberate understanding and not an innocent one. I am sure you are too intelligent to genuinely misunderstand what I said.

Many of us have made the point that peadophillia is as old as time, I keep asking why we believe so many men (and it usually is men) find babies and children sexually attractive . No responses so far.
TerriBull is right,we shouldn’t tolerate it.. we do have laws and we are also living through social changes, where victims are less likely to be blamed for their abuse. Big changes over the last twenty years. Having said that, I can imagine the battering the now adult victims of these organised groups of rapists face in court

Pippa22

I think a lot of the girls were in care and I expect wayward as taken into care because of difficult home lives and hard to manage. The care system like everything else is chronically understaffed and anyway apart from locking the girls up which wouldn’t be allowed how do you stop them going out ? These Pakistani rapists obviously initially made the girls feel special and they thought loved then were trapped by drink and drugs and fear. Some girls were made to watch murders being committed and told the same would happen to them and their families if they told.

The girls who did live with families and were taken, some families did go to the police and were arrested for being racist.

If Pakistani families of these men had complained they would be beaten. It’s a very brutal society.

What I really cannot understand is why none of the Muslim elders and church leaders are speaking out and condemning these awful men.

Maybe they are another lot that turn a blind eye, it goes on, & seems to be accepted.

Iam64

Precisely as MOnica says, I particularly agree with her final paragraph

Yes.

This, we must understand!

"Those women who shouted insults at the victims accept the same religious/societal norms as the men in their families. A strong sense of 'honour', a contempt for European culture and European life styles and a belief that they are better people all round - not that different from the way European colonial powers (and their populations) viewed the inhabitants of the colonies they ruled