Trump said: “On immigration you better get your act together or you’re not going to have Europe anymore.”

Allira

Norah

Eloethan Before we get too enraged about the oft-stated "invasions" of immigrants, let us remember that only a couple of hundred years ago Britain truly invaded many parts of the world, exploiting and ill treating their inhabitants and plundering their natural resources and antiquities.

Agreed.

Our history of colonisation is horrible, who are we to cast stones?

So should no other Europeans be concerned?
Many European countries had Empires too.

And those countries have immigration, regular and irregular, as a result of their past empire building, too.

Britain is not unique.

Because I am free to post whatever I like without your moderation.
It is a tricky route to take though, considering the current morally dubious positions of many countries, not one I would think helps anyone.

Galaxy

So I am half German, am I to be held responsible for the actions of Germany in the past? Because that is a fascinating route to go down.

Nobody, as far as I can see, asked anyone else to hold themseves responsible for the actions of the past. What was suggested is that we remember them and use the knowledge of what happened when looking at the present.

So why the waspish post?

Norah

Eloethan Before we get too enraged about the oft-stated "invasions" of immigrants, let us remember that only a couple of hundred years ago Britain truly invaded many parts of the world, exploiting and ill treating their inhabitants and plundering their natural resources and antiquities.

Agreed.

Our history of colonisation is horrible, who are we to cast stones?

So should no other Europeans be concerned?
Many European countries had Empires too.

But what does that mean?

Oreo

Doodledog

I am happy to have foxes in my country but I don't want them in my home. The same applies to bagpipe players and goodness knows what else.

There is no reason why anyone would feel the need to give a bedroom to everyone and anyone just because they don't feel they are a national threat - that logic is beyond muddled.

The sheer number of people entering the UK in an illegal manner has become a national threat.
Some just refuse to recognise that fact.

Or some don't agree that you are always right Oreo.

Yes there are world wide problems with war, internal upheaval, climate change, etc. This does not mean we should treat others as less than ourselves. This is how the world has always worked. We are here because our ancestors left Africa, travelled to Europe and then on to the UK looking for a better life.

I don't think anyone on here has said solving the problem is easy but, in the end, it has to be a solution for all - or what do we become?

GrannyGravy13

It is not racistto be concerned about irregular migration/asylum seekers.

They only become asylum seekers when they have presented themselves to a border control official, how many bypass this?

I will post for the umpteenth time, if they have nothing to hide why do they destroy their paperwork on the say so of the disgusting multi millionaire people traffickers?

Destroying paperwork makes the Home Office’s job of approving/disproving their asylum claim extremely difficult and elongates the process.

And why are hardworking immigrants, such as the Turkish Kurd I mentioned, so concerned about the rise in criminal gangs who employ illegal immigrants in their vape shops, illegal tobacco shops etc?
The criminals are not being properly dealt with which is a source of annoyance and of fear in some neighbourhoods where immigrants have settled and integrated.

Is it because the Police and other authorities are afraid of being seen as racist? If not that, why?
It's a conundrum.

I will post for the umpteenth time, if they have nothing to hide why do they destroy their paperwork on the say so of the disgusting multi millionaire people traffickers?

And I will say, GG13, also pointed out frequently, that some are unable to obtain the necessary papers in their country of origin, or have had them destroyed by acts of war, such as bombing or burning of dwellings. Not all of the world's citizens have the sort of secure and comfortable lives that make obtaining and safely keeping vital documentation an easy task.

While we know there is some truth in what you are saying, there is another side to the story.

So I am half German, am I to be held responsible for the actions of Germany in the past? Because that is a fascinating route to go down.

Eloethan Before we get too enraged about the oft-stated "invasions" of immigrants, let us remember that only a couple of hundred years ago Britain truly invaded many parts of the world, exploiting and ill treating their inhabitants and plundering their natural resources and antiquities.

Agreed.

Our history of colonisation is horrible, who are we to cast stones?

It is not the expressions of concern that are necessarily racist, it's the sort of terminology used - "illegals", and comments made "perhaps they are [subhuman[", "they love them [asylum seekers], the more the merrier", and the hysterical potential scenarios proposed - cities being taken over by Muslims, an influx of rapists and murderers, etc. etc.

It is at challenging times like these that people's true underlying opinions come out. It has been ever thus.

Before we get too enraged about the oft-stated "invasions" of immigrants, let us remember that only a couple of hundred years ago Britain truly invaded many parts of the world, exploiting and ill treating their inhabitants and plundering their natural resources and antiquities.

MayBee70

When some posters constantly post about things concerning
‘ foreigners’ one does question from what angle they are approaching what we all acknowledge to be a problem.

This subject will be constantly discussed on online forums and MSM as it has been headlining UK, European and USA politics for many years.

Governments across the globe are looking for solutions and answers…

When some posters constantly post about things concerning
‘ foreigners’ one does question from what angle they are approaching what we all acknowledge to be a problem.

I think what makes this whole subject difficult to discuss without hackles rising is that most of us have been on Gransnet for a long time, and we use our memories of what people have said previously to inform how we respond to them on new threads around broadly similar topics.

It is not racistto be concerned about irregular migration/asylum seekers.

They only become asylum seekers when they have presented themselves to a border control official, how many bypass this?

I will post for the umpteenth time, if they have nothing to hide why do they destroy their paperwork on the say so of the disgusting multi millionaire people traffickers?

Destroying paperwork makes the Home Office’s job of approving/disproving their asylum claim extremely difficult and elongates the process.

Trisha99

An interesting read on the subject of Europe’s future is Douglas Murray’s
The Strange Death of Europe: Immigration, Identity, Islam.
Published in 2017, and revised recently, it can be found on Kindle/ Goodreads.

This book gets to the core of Europe’s problems, but it holds little hope for our future. A worthwhile read.

The moral high-ground is very marshy on this subject and the racist card is useful to those needing to steady their footing.
Incidentally, I read in The Times that it is known that illegals are sleeping in rota - 8 to a room eg. - so why are the police not picking them up for deportation or verification?

Above post to Whitewavemark2 btw.

But there aren’t any on this thread, which is what we are talking about.
We are talking of the legitimate concerns of both government and people about the huge numbers of illegal entries to the UK on a daily basis.
Trying to shut posters down with the ‘racist’ insult means they have nothing left to add to the discussion.

Don’t mix the two.

I don't believe it's Oreo who is confused.

It does seem to be the first accusation, though, when there appears to be no answer to legitimate concerns which are not just those of posters on Gransnet but expressed Europe-wide by those in charge, too.

Some accusations of racism on GN would be quite shocking, if they were not so ludicrous.

It's a pity if this issue cannot be discussed without rancour.

Oreo

If there were racist posts on here then you or someone else would have ( should have) informed the mods to have them deleted.
There aren’t any.

They do, and in some cases ban the individual.

Oreo

It’s not me that muddled Whitewavemark2

As you wish.

If there were racist posts on here then you or someone else would have ( should have) informed the mods to have them deleted.
There aren’t any.

It’s not me that muddled Whitewavemark2

Oreo

Racism per se isn’t a flight of fancy, but needs to left aside when people are expressing genuine worry about the thousands arriving weekly by small boat here.
It’s a lazy insult.
It would mean every member of the Cabinet was a racist.

You are muddling the two, and this is when it becomes a real issue.

There is clear evidence of bias on these threads leading undoubtedly to prejudice, and in some cases covert racism.

There is also clear evidence over concern about immigration, the way it is being handled and control.

Don’t mix the two.

But also don’t try to stop people calling this bias/prejudice/racism out when they see it.