Hmmm, 200 Years Of The Railways.

pen50

Ashcombe

Not only did Beeching desecrate the railways, Thatcher's privatisation changed the whole industry into a profit making concern for shareholders which is why our journeys by rail are so much more expensive than in most of Europe.

I know half of Gransnet still loathes the Thatch, but rail privatisation happened several years after she was ousted.

AI Overview
“Margaret Thatcher's government significantly impacted the British railway system through policies focused on privatization and cost-cutting. A key event was the Serpell Report, commissioned to examine the state and future of British Rail. This report, produced in 1982, analyzed the railway's finances and explored various future network options. While the report itself didn't directly lead to closures, it laid the groundwork for future reforms and privatization”.
Imo she had no time fir the railways and favoured the road transport lobby…

Coming from a railway town and family, I choose to use public transport whenever possible.
There is a big celebration of 200 years of rail travel at the new Hopetown site in Darlington. Very well thought out being fun and informative at the same time. Lots of interactive things to do.
From Darlington's Bank Top station it is a 2 minute journey to North Road Darlington on the Saltburn to Bishop Auckland line.

On a trip to Italy a couple of years ago with our DD we booked train tickets from lake Garda to Milan the cost using the train line Europe app was less than £10 per person return. The trains ran on time were extremely clean which is more than we can say about Scotrail trains which are operated via the Scottish government.

Ashcombe

Not only did Beeching desecrate the railways, Thatcher's privatisation changed the whole industry into a profit making concern for shareholders which is why our journeys by rail are so much more expensive than in most of Europe.

I know half of Gransnet still loathes the Thatch, but rail privatisation happened several years after she was ousted.

If you want to see a brilliant rail system, try Switzerland! No such thing as late trains, leaves on the line, etc…

Actually we use the train a lot in West Yorkshire as our bus pass gives us half price on the trains here so I never drive into the city !

“Moving people by rail is more cost effective than individual car journeys, and with increased electrification (which should have been done years ago) rail travel will reduce the CO2 emissions associated with travelling. Rail travel should be encouraged as a substitute for road.”

I agree, ( doesn’t happen often) but we didn’t go down that road in 1964 every one wanted the freedom of a car and trucks were cheaper for freight. Now changing back to rail is simply not on the agenda anywhere. The only time we use the train is to go into either London or Birmingham because taking a car is so much hassle, so making car travel more expensive, unpleasant and difficult is the only way to force people back to public transport.
It cant be done by subsidizing public transport, that hasn’t worked

Took a fantastic train holiday 2 years ago to Sarajevo from Leeds ! All on time but did have to take a couple of buses in Bosnia!
Recommend as it was so interesting and comfortable
Did a day trip to London on Wednesday from leeds and all went fine
When it works it is amazing

The trains in my town are abysmal, not too long ago they cancel 4 trains on the trot then sent a 12 seater bus to collect 30 people! Trains running north are often just cancelled. At the moment no trains to Sellafield, a very big employer. It looks like its going to go on for months. Our trains are dirty and very old, because we are in the north we get the drag ends. HS2, maybe it should have started in the north. Then it would have been finished.

I love travelling by train. Now that it's just me and my senior railcard, the cost is pretty much the same as the cost of driving, and much less tiring. But for even an elderly couple, it would seem a lot, when the car is there and you can share the driving.

There was a recent thread about the relationship between grandchild and grandparents, on which someone working with adults commented on how important such was to them growing up.
What would you suggest, David and Oreo- should I stay home and be green, or go where I might be needed?

David49

growstuff

Chocolatelovinggran

Well, David, I prefer to see my little grandchildren in person from time to time., so do need to travel long distances, one by rail, the other by plane...if that's ok with you, of course..
I'm astonished that you feel comfortable making sweeping statements about us not needing to travel. The four year old is pretty rubbish at WhatsApp calls.

I'm surprised too. My children each lives about four hours' drive from me. It's much quicker by train. Not only that, but I'm beginning to dislike driving more than an hour or so and prefer to sit on a train with a drink and a good book.

The only way to reduce traffic congestion is to travel less, building more roads or rail encourages more travel. We are supposed to be reducing CO2 emissions and pollution yet demand the right to travel more. A 3rd runway is being built at Heathrow to increase travel more, that means Net Zero is harder to achieve

Moving people by rail is more cost effective than individual car journeys, and with increased electrification (which should have been done years ago) rail travel will reduce the CO2 emissions associated with travelling. Rail travel should be encouraged as a substitute for road.

You cannot stop long distance travelling', all you can do is encourage the most efficient and environmentally friendly methods of moving large numbers of people. Rail seems to fit the bill though the high cost to individuals is a disincentive.

However, when you factor in the full costs of car ownership and usage, not to mention pollution, for each car journey rail doesn't look such a bad choice. Particularly if it is part of an integrated transport plan.

That’s exactly it David49 when it comes down to it people put desire to travel before any green credentials.It was always going to be that way.

growstuff

Chocolatelovinggran

Well, David, I prefer to see my little grandchildren in person from time to time., so do need to travel long distances, one by rail, the other by plane...if that's ok with you, of course..
I'm astonished that you feel comfortable making sweeping statements about us not needing to travel. The four year old is pretty rubbish at WhatsApp calls.

I'm surprised too. My children each lives about four hours' drive from me. It's much quicker by train. Not only that, but I'm beginning to dislike driving more than an hour or so and prefer to sit on a train with a drink and a good book.

The only way to reduce traffic congestion is to travel less, building more roads or rail encourages more travel. We are supposed to be reducing CO2 emissions and pollution yet demand the right to travel more. A 3rd runway is being built at Heathrow to increase travel more, that means Net Zero is harder to achieve

MaizieD

^If any rail expansion is done in the way HS2 has been organized we will go bankrupt first^

We will never go bankrupt, David. We're not a business or a household.

HS2 might be a vast white elephant, but it's economic activity and contributing to GDP.

No Maisie but our cost of living and therefore inflation could wreck the economy. The HS2 economic activity could have put into a useful asset instead of a White Elephant, or are you denying that £ 100 billion could not have been used usefully elsewhere

Chocolatelovinggran

Well, David, I prefer to see my little grandchildren in person from time to time., so do need to travel long distances, one by rail, the other by plane...if that's ok with you, of course..
I'm astonished that you feel comfortable making sweeping statements about us not needing to travel. The four year old is pretty rubbish at WhatsApp calls.

I'm surprised too. My children each lives about four hours' drive from me. It's much quicker by train. Not only that, but I'm beginning to dislike driving more than an hour or so and prefer to sit on a train with a drink and a good book.

If any rail expansion is done in the way HS2 has been organized we will go bankrupt first

We will never go bankrupt, David. We're not a business or a household.

HS2 might be a vast white elephant, but it's economic activity and contributing to GDP.

growstuff

Maizie The Victorians also had branch lines all over the place, which enabled deliveries. Most of those branch lines disappeared years ago and have been re-purposed.

I do know that

The Victorians built more lines than necessary, railway development being something of a speculative bubble. But Beeching axed a great many lines which would be very useful today...

Claremont

growstuff

grandMattie

Very sad. So much freight could go by rail and reduce the number of lorries on the road, pollution, numbe4 or ne2 roads…
There seems to be no real solution - or at least an affordable one. Nothing like the catastrophe that is HS2.

The problem is that freight would still need to be dropped off and picked up at big stations with enough space for loading and offloading and sorting. There would also need to be access roads to the stations. Logistically, it doesn't make sense.

Why? Just build freight stations outside major towns with good link system. It works.

Easier said than done! Land is scarce round many towns - as is the land required for the track. Near where I live is a disused station and track. With hindsight, it should never have been closed and people have looked at reinstating it. The problem is that the station site and car park now have blocks of flats on them and the old track is also partly built up. An awful lot of compulsory purchase would be needed - just look at what's happened with HS2.

Not only that but big supermarkets would still need to pick up their produce from the stations, so would need a fleet of vans, which would clog up local roads more then lorries would. The labour/time needed to load and unload would need to be factored in too.

Well, David, I prefer to see my little grandchildren in person from time to time., so do need to travel long distances, one by rail, the other by plane...if that's ok with you, of course..
I'm astonished that you feel comfortable making sweeping statements about us not needing to travel. The four year old is pretty rubbish at WhatsApp calls.

When we used to work for the railways we used to travel round Europe with our free tickets. Used to feel ashamed when we got back to the UK and saw the state of our railways. Mind you, that was many years ago but not sure if things have improved that much. I’m sure it’s cheaper to travel by train just about everywhere else. As with a lot of things in the UK, because we were the first with many things because of the Industrial Revolution it’s all falling apart at the seams.

I doubt the present railway system could take on all the freight currently on our roads.
I often wonder what tourists make of our railways.

“As for long distance journeys, why wouldn't we want or need to make them? What an odd statement.”

They are mainly discretionary you don’t have to work 50 miles from home you don’t have to travel to Spain four a holiday you do it by choice and pay the cost and cause the pollution, you and I are causing most of the pollution.

Yes milk and vegetables as well as other goods were delivered to the cities next day because lorries were not available.
Rail transport is always subsidized, road transport is simply cheaper, in fact even air transport is cheaper than rail, wherever you are a cheap rail or bus ticket is being paid for from taxation.
Personally I believe we should have electrified rail connecting distribution hubs but successive governments have gone in the opposite direction because it costs less. If any rail expansion is done in the way HS2 has been organized we will go bankrupt first

Also
“A lorry can do significantly more damage to a road than a car, with the damage increasing exponentially with weight, particularly due to the "fourth power law". This means a lorry's heavier axle load can cause many times more damage than a car's. For example, a 44-tonne truck can cause 136,000 times more damage than a typical car”.

grandMattie

Very sad. So much freight could go by rail and reduce the number of lorries on the road, pollution, numbe4 or ne2 roads…
There seems to be no real solution - or at least an affordable one. Nothing like the catastrophe that is HS2.

The whole point of HS2 was to get more freight off the roads. It wasn’t just about getting from a go b quicker. Our rail system is archaic.