Underachievement of white boys

inevitably I transgressed and got punished, I took my punishment

Mm, interesting comment David.

Presumably the ‘punishment’ you ‘took’ was physical?

Your comments suggest you might say ‘it didn’t do me any harm’ … but your attitude on here towards women would suggest that, sadly, maybe it did.

Of course it’s a cultural issue. Before Thatcher destroyed industry in this country, young men were assured of a job in the shipyards, the mines, the steelworks, car factories, and the like. These jobs gave a dignity in labour and often a sense of community. Now there is a void. The school curriculum, thanks to Gove, is narrow and reminiscent of Dotheboys Hall, - drama, the arts, music, practical subjects all starved of funds and the concentration on narrow academe. School for a child whose parents had failed in school, lack encouragement or any incentive to succeed in the seemingly irrelevant curriculum, especially for those living in the previous industrial regions where jobs are scarce and there is little to aspire to. It’s no coincidence that regional variations in exam success are marked, with London schools consistently outperforming the rest of the country. Of course, London has a much more diverse population and more opportunities available. It’s not just about class and gender - it’s a whole host of variables.

I’m certainly not in the universe where men are right and women are blamed for the failures of society David49, I’m in the one where the greatest contribution to outcomes for children comes from homes where both parents love, nurture, support, encourage and when necessary discipline their children so that when they get to school age they know how to behave in a learning atmosphere, which is not designed to replace inadequate parenting. You aren’t in the same one as I am, clearly.

keepingquiet

Casdon

I think I’ve entered a parallel universe.

No, I think David is in it!

You probably are in your own universe, you are certainly not in the real world when so many children have difficulty fitting into the adult world of work. The top 25% do well enough, of the rest many struggle, as an employer I saw what you produced, you don’t prepare children for the adult world.

At primary school where male teachers are rare the problems start there, my youngest daughter still gas one daughter at primary, discipline was do bad that literally half the parents moved children

By the way, I wouldn’t welcome back to the future where boys were routinely beaten or caned

why won’t women admit they have failed so many children asks David?

Where to start ? What about the absent fathers, who play no part in bringing up their children.
Parallel Universe indeed

David49

There were no teaching assistants to keep order, my class was 35 yet you all complain that class sizes are too large. There were just as many poor families in those days although probably less single parents

One of the differences between private and state schools is
discipline is enforced, my parents expected me to behave, inevitably I transgressed and got punished, I took my punishment but I did not want my parents to find out, I would have been punished again.

I actually agree with you there David, that discipline is so lacking. But would your solutions to the current problems be?

Casdon

I think I’ve entered a parallel universe.

No, I think David is in it!

I think I’ve entered a parallel universe.

LizzieDrip

David49

Men expect to be in control of their situation that is not the reality of many classrooms, women are more tolerant and allow indiscipline to get through the day.

So if you like women can hack it and we have seen the results

What absolute, misogynistic rubbish!

Do you have teaching experience David?

Do tell!

Why won’t women admit they have failed so many children

There were no teaching assistants to keep order, my class was 35 yet you all complain that class sizes are too large. There were just as many poor families in those days although probably less single parents

One of the differences between private and state schools is
discipline is enforced, my parents expected me to behave, inevitably I transgressed and got punished, I took my punishment but I did not want my parents to find out, I would have been punished again.

David49

Men expect to be in control of their situation that is not the reality of many classrooms, women are more tolerant and allow indiscipline to get through the day.

So if you like women can hack it and we have seen the results

What absolute, misogynistic rubbish!

Do you have teaching experience David?

Do tell!

I never ever in my whole career told any boy that his masculinity was toxic or mentioned white privilege. BAME and female students weren't given any privileges either

Same growstuff - 30 years a teacher and school leader.

Never experienced it in any classroom either.

David49

MaizieD

Casdon

Good grief.

That's what I thought, too 😁

I wonder if David has ever spent time teaching or assisting teachers in a secondary school?

I've seen women teachers who can quell a class with a glance and men who couldn't control one child, let alone 30 plus.

I do think you should realise that the 1950s is long gone, David 😂

The thread is about young males under achieving you are all supporting the existing system which has seen male teachers fall to about one third and still falling.
Children have to learn respect many do from their parents and do well at school, teachers are simply not respected today by pupils or indeed parents, how do you expect children to learn.

Yes I am a product of the 1960s school system, nobody disrespected a teacher, discipline was good we all got jobs at 16, the bright ones went to technical college some university.

Here you are arguing your system is better - it isn’t.

35% of teachers at secondary school level are male David 49, are they all failing young men too?

David49, it’s a miracle anyone goes into teaching pm an even greater miracle that they stay.
We’ve had 15 years of our public servants, including teachers, running up huge university debts then being expected to work ridiculously long hours with inevitable stress.
We have children in mai stream who in the past would have been in residential special schools. I’m a supporter of inclusion but it has to be properly resourced
Thank heavens ‘some posters ‘ aren’t the education minister or teaching our children

And the misogyny towards women on this thread is astonishing

MaizieD

Casdon

Good grief.

That's what I thought, too 😁

I wonder if David has ever spent time teaching or assisting teachers in a secondary school?

I've seen women teachers who can quell a class with a glance and men who couldn't control one child, let alone 30 plus.

I do think you should realise that the 1950s is long gone, David 😂

The thread is about young males under achieving you are all supporting the existing system which has seen male teachers fall to about one third and still falling.
Children have to learn respect many do from their parents and do well at school, teachers are simply not respected today by pupils or indeed parents, how do you expect children to learn.

Yes I am a product of the 1960s school system, nobody disrespected a teacher, discipline was good we all got jobs at 16, the bright ones went to technical college some university.

Here you are arguing your system is better - it isn’t.

Kandinsky

We have to keep white working class boys down as they’re the only ones who join the army and risk their lives protecting their country.

Yes those working class prince william and prince harry are great examples.

hollysteers

David49

Men expect to be in control of their situation that is not the reality of many classrooms, women are more tolerant and allow indiscipline to get through the day.

So if you like women can hack it and we have seen the results

Obviously no experience of being taught by nuns.

😂

I think it’s a shame that more men don’t go into teaching. It’d be such a good thing for the young boys. There was only one male teacher in my children’s primary school.

“Men expect to be in control of their situation that is not the reality of many classrooms, women are more tolerant and allow indiscipline to get through the day”

I don’t necessarily disagree that female teachers are more tolerant of bad behaviour than male teachers. But looking at the behaviour of teenage boys in school now it’s a wonder anyone wants to teach them, and I can understand why women are intimidated and scared of it - they’re not the parents, after all, they’re there to teach. Discipline comes mainly from home… it’s a big problem

Good grief with nobs on! No one in a difficult teaching situation "gets by" by tolerating indiscipline it's a downhill track to oblivion. Good teachers of both sexes maintain acceptable ,behaviour by using a variety of methods appropriate to the situation and expecting to be in control all of the time is setting yourself and your students up for failure. IMO good teachers strive for co-operation and engagement not control, when you have that, you don't need discipline. I speak from experience having taught in some very challenging environments.

David49

Casdon

Good grief.

I say to all the former teachers here on GN the current chaos in schools sits firmly in your laps. Of course you will try to blame others, I honestly can’t think of any reason why a man would want to teach today.

I’m not a former teacher. I do find your chauvinistic attitude to women teachers very offensive though. How dare you blame women teachers for the state of the youth of today.

Casdon

Good grief.

I say to all the former teachers here on GN the current chaos in schools sits firmly in your laps. Of course you will try to blame others, I honestly can’t think of any reason why a man would want to teach today.

David49

Men expect to be in control of their situation that is not the reality of many classrooms, women are more tolerant and allow indiscipline to get through the day.

So if you like women can hack it and we have seen the results

Obviously no experience of being taught by nuns.

Casdon

Good grief.

That's what I thought, too 😁

I wonder if David has ever spent time teaching or assisting teachers in a secondary school?

I've seen women teachers who can quell a class with a glance and men who couldn't control one child, let alone 30 plus.

I do think you should realise that the 1950s is long gone, David 😂

David49

Men expect to be in control of their situation that is not the reality of many classrooms, women are more tolerant and allow indiscipline to get through the day.

So if you like women can hack it and we have seen the results

On a thread full of judgemental nonsense, that really takes the prize.
It’s women to blame for everything. We intrude into male sports because “they” encourage us to. We are over represented in the teaching profession, so discipline is falling.
Poor men, sidelined, ignored and out down

I seem to recall growstuff wryly responding that she looks forward to a discussion on this important issue. Best of luck there