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Underachievement of white boys

(204 Posts)
JohnnyMo Sun 24-Aug-25 09:11:24

๐™‚๐™–๐™ก๐™–๐™ญ๐™ฎ: I must tell the white working boys who are least likely to achieve in education how lucky they really are.

๐™‚๐™ง๐™ค๐™ฌ๐™จ๐™ฉ๐™ช๐™›๐™› : Maybe you should start another thread about why they underachieve as a group. I doubt if it has anything to do with other cultures.

Wyllow3 Sun 24-Aug-25 09:21:33

I think that many people from other cultures are extra keen for their children to get a good education and go into professional jobs, and we have some great doctors, solicitors, opticians, hearing testing, and so on. Just from experience of who I see in daily life and generally. The big primary school near our mosque its rated excellent and mostly all smartly turned out and discipline better than average

But I don't think that this stops white boys from achieving - I agree with Growstuff its something endemic amongst white born citizens. The recent exam results also showed England behind Scotland, NI, and Wales.

Wyllow3 Sun 24-Aug-25 09:24:48

What I think it does do is engender envy, and put non white pupils at risk. We need to attend to this "falling behind" - more apprenticeships, curriculum thought through better, and so on, but the reality is that bad behaviour in secondary schools is very endemic and very hard to address.

Kandinsky Sun 24-Aug-25 09:29:21

We have to keep white working class boys down as theyโ€™re the only ones who join the army and risk their lives protecting their country.

JohnnyMo Sun 24-Aug-25 09:31:46

While I agree it is nothing to do directly with other cultures, the issues as I see it is all other groups in a similar situation get targeted support.

Plenty of encouragement for girls to do jobs typically seen as men's work. Also encouragement for girls to do sport we have just had the women's Euro now the Rugby World Cup.

Same with the BAME communities, Black History month (from what I've seen mostly lies and half truths) so they can fell good about their history. Search "black scholarship" to see how many racially biased scholarships there are often at top ranking Universities against the one (Bradford Univ) for white working class boys.

So what are white boys offered. Being told from an early age their masculinity is Toxic, their history is exploitive. They have white privilege their wealth was stollen ...

All their teachers are probably women, who see them as a problem to be managed while the girls in the class are taught.

growstuff Sun 24-Aug-25 09:32:40

Kandinsky

We have to keep white working class boys down as theyโ€™re the only ones who join the army and risk their lives protecting their country.

Sigh! It would be discuss the topic properly.

Kandinsky Sun 24-Aug-25 09:34:40

So what are white boys offered. Being told from an early age their masculinity is Toxic, their history is exploitive. They have white privilege their wealth was stollen

Thatโ€™s about it yes.

growstuff Sun 24-Aug-25 09:35:15

JohnnyMo

While I agree it is nothing to do directly with other cultures, the issues as I see it is all other groups in a similar situation get targeted support.

Plenty of encouragement for girls to do jobs typically seen as men's work. Also encouragement for girls to do sport we have just had the women's Euro now the Rugby World Cup.

Same with the BAME communities, Black History month (from what I've seen mostly lies and half truths) so they can fell good about their history. Search "black scholarship" to see how many racially biased scholarships there are often at top ranking Universities against the one (Bradford Univ) for white working class boys.

So what are white boys offered. Being told from an early age their masculinity is Toxic, their history is exploitive. They have white privilege their wealth was stollen ...

All their teachers are probably women, who see them as a problem to be managed while the girls in the class are taught.

Teachers in primary school are probably mainly female, but not in secondary school.

I never ever in my whole career told any boy that his masculinity was toxic or mentioned white privilege. BAME and female students weren't given any privileges either.

growstuff Sun 24-Aug-25 09:36:48

What is this nonsense about sport? Males are encouraged to do sport.

NotSpaghetti Sun 24-Aug-25 09:41:18

These are government statistics:

11.2% Ethnic minorities (excluding white minorities) representation in the UK Regular Forces
as at 1 April 2024

15.3% Of total intake into the combined UK Regular Forces and the Future Reserves 2020 were ethnic minorities (excluding white minorities)
in the 12 months to 31 March 2024

I think this is roughly in line with demographics.
Where is your evidence from, Kandinsky please?

GrannyGravy13 Sun 24-Aug-25 09:46:06

To be fair, the media is full of BAME people telling its viewer about white privilege.

We have now got the likes of the Tates and others on social media telling boys to man up and take charge, which then leads on to endless programmes and documentary about male toxicity.

It is hard for a young white boy in the 21st century.

Some thrive with a cushion of a supportive family, a safe place to do school work and a healthy attitude. Many havenโ€™t got these things that most of us would take for granted.

Basically some of these lads slip through various nets feel that nobody cares about them, there is nothing out in the big wide world for them unless they are an influencer, sports person or similar, education is not a priority.

Jaxjacky Sun 24-Aug-25 09:52:23

Underprivileged families are the most likely to be single, parent, usually the mother (85%), with no male role model, 80% are white British.
Starter for ten.

Kandinsky Sun 24-Aug-25 09:53:02

15.3% Of total intake into the combined UK Regular Forces and the Future Reserves 2020 were ethnic minorities (excluding white minorities

So 85% white.

And youโ€™re asking me for evidence?

JohnnyMo Sun 24-Aug-25 09:55:08

๐˜จ๐˜ณ๐˜ฐ๐˜ธ๐˜ด๐˜ต๐˜ถ๐˜ง๐˜ง ๐˜š๐˜ถ๐˜ฏ 24-๐˜ˆ๐˜ถ๐˜จ-25 09:35:15
๐™๐™š๐™–๐™˜๐™๐™š๐™ง๐™จ ๐™ž๐™ฃ ๐™ฅ๐™ง๐™ž๐™ข๐™–๐™ง๐™ฎ ๐™จ๐™˜๐™๐™ค๐™ค๐™ก ๐™–๐™ง๐™š ๐™ฅ๐™ง๐™ค๐™—๐™–๐™—๐™ก๐™ฎ ๐™ข๐™–๐™ž๐™ฃ๐™ก๐™ฎ ๐™›๐™š๐™ข๐™–๐™ก๐™š, ๐™—๐™ช๐™ฉ ๐™ฃ๐™ค๐™ฉ ๐™ž๐™ฃ ๐™จ๐™š๐™˜๐™ค๐™ฃ๐™™๐™–๐™ง๐™ฎ ๐™จ๐™˜๐™๐™ค๐™ค๐™ก.

In 2023/24, approximately 64% of full-time equivalent (FTE) teachers in UK secondary schools were female

NotSpaghetti Sun 24-Aug-25 09:58:37

Kandinsky

*15.3% Of total intake into the combined UK Regular Forces and the Future Reserves 2020 were ethnic minorities (excluding white minorities*

So 85% white.

And youโ€™re asking me for evidence?

Yes. I am.
15% and 85% is in line with UK demographics.

Wyllow3 Sun 24-Aug-25 09:59:12

growstuff

What is this nonsense about sport? Males are encouraged to do sport.

Totally bizarre, Growstuff. it's great to see women of all cultures engaging in sport.

Goodness me, isn't that what everyone's been saying about girls from more traditional cultures, that we should encourage them, not pour cold water on it?

Thinking of that great film, "Bend it like Beckham".

growstuff Sun 24-Aug-25 10:00:35

schoolsweek.co.uk/we-need-to-advocate-for-poor-white-boys-or-others-will/

Wyllow3 Sun 24-Aug-25 10:01:01

Generally, if girls and women are now doing better and have more chances, what kind of mean male (or female) wants to stop it? What have some against strong women?

(goes away muttering in disbelief)

growstuff Sun 24-Aug-25 10:01:59

JohnnyMo

๐˜จ๐˜ณ๐˜ฐ๐˜ธ๐˜ด๐˜ต๐˜ถ๐˜ง๐˜ง ๐˜š๐˜ถ๐˜ฏ 24-๐˜ˆ๐˜ถ๐˜จ-25 09:35:15
๐™๐™š๐™–๐™˜๐™๐™š๐™ง๐™จ ๐™ž๐™ฃ ๐™ฅ๐™ง๐™ž๐™ข๐™–๐™ง๐™ฎ ๐™จ๐™˜๐™๐™ค๐™ค๐™ก ๐™–๐™ง๐™š ๐™ฅ๐™ง๐™ค๐™—๐™–๐™—๐™ก๐™ฎ ๐™ข๐™–๐™ž๐™ฃ๐™ก๐™ฎ ๐™›๐™š๐™ข๐™–๐™ก๐™š, ๐™—๐™ช๐™ฉ ๐™ฃ๐™ค๐™ฉ ๐™ž๐™ฃ ๐™จ๐™š๐™˜๐™ค๐™ฃ๐™™๐™–๐™ง๐™ฎ ๐™จ๐™˜๐™๐™ค๐™ค๐™ก.

In 2023/24, approximately 64% of full-time equivalent (FTE) teachers in UK secondary schools were female

Interesting. Thank you! That wasn't my experience in the schools where I taught.

growstuff Sun 24-Aug-25 10:03:49

It isn't really that girls are doing better. White working class girls don't do much better than the boys. The issue is that white children from low income families (boys and girls) underachieve as a group.

growstuff Sun 24-Aug-25 10:05:19

GrannyGravy13

To be fair, the media is full of BAME people telling its viewer about white privilege.

We have now got the likes of the Tates and others on social media telling boys to man up and take charge, which then leads on to endless programmes and documentary about male toxicity.

It is hard for a young white boy in the 21st century.

Some thrive with a cushion of a supportive family, a safe place to do school work and a healthy attitude. Many havenโ€™t got these things that most of us would take for granted.

Basically some of these lads slip through various nets feel that nobody cares about them, there is nothing out in the big wide world for them unless they are an influencer, sports person or similar, education is not a priority.

Do you think Tate is the solution?

The issue is more to do with class/low income than a gender issue. Girls do only slighly better than boys.

MaizieD Sun 24-Aug-25 10:07:15

15% and 85% is in line with UK demographics.

If there were a higher percentage of 'ethnic minorities' we'd have the xenophobes and the conspiracy theorists screaming about our white British military culture being erased and producing an army of 'ethnics' who could turn on us at any moment...

You can't win, really ๐Ÿ™

JohnnyMo Sun 24-Aug-25 10:07:37

๐˜ž๐˜บ๐˜ญ๐˜ญ๐˜ฐ๐˜ธ3 ๐˜š๐˜ถ๐˜ฏ 24-๐˜ˆ๐˜ถ๐˜จ-25 09:21:33
๐—œ ๐˜๐—ต๐—ถ๐—ป๐—ธ ๐˜๐—ต๐—ฎ๐˜ ๐—บ๐—ฎ๐—ป๐˜† ๐—ฝ๐—ฒ๐—ผ๐—ฝ๐—น๐—ฒ ๐—ณ๐—ฟ๐—ผ๐—บ ๐—ผ๐˜๐—ต๐—ฒ๐—ฟ ๐—ฐ๐˜‚๐—น๐˜๐˜‚๐—ฟ๐—ฒ๐˜€ ๐—ฎ๐—ฟ๐—ฒ ๐—ฒ๐˜…๐˜๐—ฟ๐—ฎ ๐—ธ๐—ฒ๐—ฒ๐—ป ๐—ณ๐—ผ๐—ฟ ๐˜๐—ต๐—ฒ๐—ถ๐—ฟ ๐—ฐ๐—ต๐—ถ๐—น๐—ฑ๐—ฟ๐—ฒ๐—ป ๐˜๐—ผ ๐—ด๐—ฒ๐˜ ๐—ฎ ๐—ด๐—ผ๐—ผ๐—ฑ ๐—ฒ๐—ฑ๐˜‚๐—ฐ๐—ฎ๐˜๐—ถ๐—ผ๐—ป ๐—ฎ๐—ป๐—ฑ ๐—ด๐—ผ ๐—ถ๐—ป๐˜๐—ผ ๐—ฝ๐—ฟ๐—ผ๐—ณ๐—ฒ๐˜€๐˜€๐—ถ๐—ผ๐—ป๐—ฎ๐—น ๐—ท๐—ผ๐—ฏ๐˜€,โ€

Some but not all immigrant communities. Those communities who don't have a personal improvement ethos get targeted encouragement

NotSpaghetti Sun 24-Aug-25 10:09:06

education is not a priority says someone up above - and I think that comes from the home, at least in part.

If you had a rough time at school and were labelled a "bad" boy or "thick" or whatever and received, in addition no encouragement from your home it must be really hard to see the point of struggling on.
Schoolteaching has changed and teachers try not to label youngsters as they used to but families are not all working with schools to improve their child's development.

People coming here from Asia tend to see education as a key to a better future.
Maybe we, (White British) don't always see this?

Casdon Sun 24-Aug-25 10:12:30

Can I just clarify, is this discussion about white boys generally, or about white boys from low income households? It is only the latter group that are deemed to under- achieve as I understand it?