Underachievement of white boys

Education is becoming seen increasingly as irrelevant.
Working class culture is not to blame.
White working class boys in the past were taught practical skills for the world of work: mining, ship building, dock work, steel work, fishing I could go on about how they walked out of school and into a job.
There was only the need to educate the bright ones- those who passed their 11 plus and went onto grammar schools.
Girls found work in factories whilst they waited to get married and start families.

In the 2000s the government encouraged kids to stay on and attend university because the jobs were just not available anymore, but most of these graduates finished up in call centres and warehouses. They just kicked the can.

We need a complete overhaul of the education system now, but no one is talking about it.

Young men of any class or culture do not need demonising- they need to feel valued and useful to society and this starts at a very early age.

If you put people on a scrap heap they turn into rubbish...

white boys from low income households

What role do parents play in this? There's lots on this thread about school teachers " see boys as a problem to be managed while the girls are taught" ( sweeping, judgemental criticism of a whole profession, at all?), sport, government keeping them down to provide soldiers ( any data to support this?), the only reference to families is to point to single parents.
Growstuff is right, there's a problem with underachievers from a certain demographic, which is worthy of some more thoughtful discussion.

JohnnyMo

𝘞𝘺𝘭𝘭𝘰𝘸3 𝘚𝘶𝘯 24-𝘈𝘶𝘨-25 09:21:33
𝗜 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗸 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝗺𝗮𝗻𝘆 𝗽𝗲𝗼𝗽𝗹𝗲 𝗳𝗿𝗼𝗺 𝗼𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿 𝗰𝘂𝗹𝘁𝘂𝗿𝗲𝘀 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗲𝘅𝘁𝗿𝗮 𝗸𝗲𝗲𝗻 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗶𝗿 𝗰𝗵𝗶𝗹𝗱𝗿𝗲𝗻 𝘁𝗼 𝗴𝗲𝘁 𝗮 𝗴𝗼𝗼𝗱 𝗲𝗱𝘂𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗴𝗼 𝗶𝗻𝘁𝗼 𝗽𝗿𝗼𝗳𝗲𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗼𝗻𝗮𝗹 𝗷𝗼𝗯𝘀,”

Some but not all immigrant communities. Those communities who don't have a personal improvement ethos get targeted encouragement

What do you think could be done to encourage white working class children?

Can I just clarify, is this discussion about white boys generally, or about white boys from low income households? It is only the latter group that are deemed to under- achieve as I understand it?

education is not a priority says someone up above - and I think that comes from the home, at least in part.

If you had a rough time at school and were labelled a "bad" boy or "thick" or whatever and received, in addition no encouragement from your home it must be really hard to see the point of struggling on.
Schoolteaching has changed and teachers try not to label youngsters as they used to but families are not all working with schools to improve their child's development.

People coming here from Asia tend to see education as a key to a better future.
Maybe we, (White British) don't always see this?

𝘞𝘺𝘭𝘭𝘰𝘸3 𝘚𝘶𝘯 24-𝘈𝘶𝘨-25 09:21:33
𝗜 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗸 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝗺𝗮𝗻𝘆 𝗽𝗲𝗼𝗽𝗹𝗲 𝗳𝗿𝗼𝗺 𝗼𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿 𝗰𝘂𝗹𝘁𝘂𝗿𝗲𝘀 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗲𝘅𝘁𝗿𝗮 𝗸𝗲𝗲𝗻 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗶𝗿 𝗰𝗵𝗶𝗹𝗱𝗿𝗲𝗻 𝘁𝗼 𝗴𝗲𝘁 𝗮 𝗴𝗼𝗼𝗱 𝗲𝗱𝘂𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗴𝗼 𝗶𝗻𝘁𝗼 𝗽𝗿𝗼𝗳𝗲𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗼𝗻𝗮𝗹 𝗷𝗼𝗯𝘀,”

Some but not all immigrant communities. Those communities who don't have a personal improvement ethos get targeted encouragement

15% and 85% is in line with UK demographics.

If there were a higher percentage of 'ethnic minorities' we'd have the xenophobes and the conspiracy theorists screaming about our white British military culture being erased and producing an army of 'ethnics' who could turn on us at any moment...

You can't win, really 🙁

GrannyGravy13

To be fair, the media is full of BAME people telling its viewer about white privilege.

We have now got the likes of the Tates and others on social media telling boys to man up and take charge, which then leads on to endless programmes and documentary about male toxicity.

It is hard for a young white boy in the 21st century.

Some thrive with a cushion of a supportive family, a safe place to do school work and a healthy attitude. Many haven’t got these things that most of us would take for granted.

Basically some of these lads slip through various nets feel that nobody cares about them, there is nothing out in the big wide world for them unless they are an influencer, sports person or similar, education is not a priority.

Do you think Tate is the solution?

The issue is more to do with class/low income than a gender issue. Girls do only slighly better than boys.

It isn't really that girls are doing better. White working class girls don't do much better than the boys. The issue is that white children from low income families (boys and girls) underachieve as a group.

JohnnyMo

𝘨𝘳𝘰𝘸𝘴𝘵𝘶𝘧𝘧 𝘚𝘶𝘯 24-𝘈𝘶𝘨-25 09:35:15
𝙏𝙚𝙖𝙘𝙝𝙚𝙧𝙨 𝙞𝙣 𝙥𝙧𝙞𝙢𝙖𝙧𝙮 𝙨𝙘𝙝𝙤𝙤𝙡 𝙖𝙧𝙚 𝙥𝙧𝙤𝙗𝙖𝙗𝙡𝙮 𝙢𝙖𝙞𝙣𝙡𝙮 𝙛𝙚𝙢𝙖𝙡𝙚, 𝙗𝙪𝙩 𝙣𝙤𝙩 𝙞𝙣 𝙨𝙚𝙘𝙤𝙣𝙙𝙖𝙧𝙮 𝙨𝙘𝙝𝙤𝙤𝙡.

In 2023/24, approximately 64% of full-time equivalent (FTE) teachers in UK secondary schools were female

Interesting. Thank you! That wasn't my experience in the schools where I taught.

Generally, if girls and women are now doing better and have more chances, what kind of mean male (or female) wants to stop it? What have some against strong women?

(goes away muttering in disbelief)

schoolsweek.co.uk/we-need-to-advocate-for-poor-white-boys-or-others-will/

growstuff

What is this nonsense about sport? Males are encouraged to do sport.

Totally bizarre, Growstuff. it's great to see women of all cultures engaging in sport.

Goodness me, isn't that what everyone's been saying about girls from more traditional cultures, that we should encourage them, not pour cold water on it?

Thinking of that great film, "Bend it like Beckham".

Kandinsky

*15.3% Of total intake into the combined UK Regular Forces and the Future Reserves 2020 were ethnic minorities (excluding white minorities*

So 85% white.

And you’re asking me for evidence?

Yes. I am.
15% and 85% is in line with UK demographics.

𝘨𝘳𝘰𝘸𝘴𝘵𝘶𝘧𝘧 𝘚𝘶𝘯 24-𝘈𝘶𝘨-25 09:35:15
𝙏𝙚𝙖𝙘𝙝𝙚𝙧𝙨 𝙞𝙣 𝙥𝙧𝙞𝙢𝙖𝙧𝙮 𝙨𝙘𝙝𝙤𝙤𝙡 𝙖𝙧𝙚 𝙥𝙧𝙤𝙗𝙖𝙗𝙡𝙮 𝙢𝙖𝙞𝙣𝙡𝙮 𝙛𝙚𝙢𝙖𝙡𝙚, 𝙗𝙪𝙩 𝙣𝙤𝙩 𝙞𝙣 𝙨𝙚𝙘𝙤𝙣𝙙𝙖𝙧𝙮 𝙨𝙘𝙝𝙤𝙤𝙡.

In 2023/24, approximately 64% of full-time equivalent (FTE) teachers in UK secondary schools were female

15.3% Of total intake into the combined UK Regular Forces and the Future Reserves 2020 were ethnic minorities (excluding white minorities

So 85% white.

And you’re asking me for evidence?

Underprivileged families are the most likely to be single, parent, usually the mother (85%), with no male role model, 80% are white British.
Starter for ten.

To be fair, the media is full of BAME people telling its viewer about white privilege.

We have now got the likes of the Tates and others on social media telling boys to man up and take charge, which then leads on to endless programmes and documentary about male toxicity.

It is hard for a young white boy in the 21st century.

Some thrive with a cushion of a supportive family, a safe place to do school work and a healthy attitude. Many haven’t got these things that most of us would take for granted.

Basically some of these lads slip through various nets feel that nobody cares about them, there is nothing out in the big wide world for them unless they are an influencer, sports person or similar, education is not a priority.

These are government statistics:

11.2% Ethnic minorities (excluding white minorities) representation in the UK Regular Forces
as at 1 April 2024

15.3% Of total intake into the combined UK Regular Forces and the Future Reserves 2020 were ethnic minorities (excluding white minorities)
in the 12 months to 31 March 2024

I think this is roughly in line with demographics.
Where is your evidence from, Kandinsky please?

What is this nonsense about sport? Males are encouraged to do sport.

JohnnyMo

While I agree it is nothing to do directly with other cultures, the issues as I see it is all other groups in a similar situation get targeted support.

Plenty of encouragement for girls to do jobs typically seen as men's work. Also encouragement for girls to do sport we have just had the women's Euro now the Rugby World Cup.

Same with the BAME communities, Black History month (from what I've seen mostly lies and half truths) so they can fell good about their history. Search "black scholarship" to see how many racially biased scholarships there are often at top ranking Universities against the one (Bradford Univ) for white working class boys.

So what are white boys offered. Being told from an early age their masculinity is Toxic, their history is exploitive. They have white privilege their wealth was stollen ...

All their teachers are probably women, who see them as a problem to be managed while the girls in the class are taught.

Teachers in primary school are probably mainly female, but not in secondary school.

I never ever in my whole career told any boy that his masculinity was toxic or mentioned white privilege. BAME and female students weren't given any privileges either.

So what are white boys offered. Being told from an early age their masculinity is Toxic, their history is exploitive. They have white privilege their wealth was stollen

That’s about it yes.

Kandinsky

We have to keep white working class boys down as they’re the only ones who join the army and risk their lives protecting their country.

Sigh! It would be discuss the topic properly.

While I agree it is nothing to do directly with other cultures, the issues as I see it is all other groups in a similar situation get targeted support.

Plenty of encouragement for girls to do jobs typically seen as men's work. Also encouragement for girls to do sport we have just had the women's Euro now the Rugby World Cup.

Same with the BAME communities, Black History month (from what I've seen mostly lies and half truths) so they can fell good about their history. Search "black scholarship" to see how many racially biased scholarships there are often at top ranking Universities against the one (Bradford Univ) for white working class boys.

So what are white boys offered. Being told from an early age their masculinity is Toxic, their history is exploitive. They have white privilege their wealth was stollen ...

All their teachers are probably women, who see them as a problem to be managed while the girls in the class are taught.