1,027 irregular migrants arrive here on rubber boats in the last 24 hours.

As someone who lives to travel, I've never really minded where people are. I am more concerned by who they are, or should I say, how they treat others.

I think a large majority agrees that migration is an issue, but it is the toxicity surrounding the issue that make many of us feel very queasy.

There is an unpleasant group of people in our society, who tend towards violence and general foul language and behaviour, who are being encouraged by SM with its continued focus on immigration and the lies dripped out week after week, month after month. These groups do not need much excuse to start violence or indeed riot.

Why start thread after thread on the same subject with frequent tropes and half truths?

We don’t need continual reminding of what is happening throughout the world, - we know.

There appears to be an underlying agenda which is as I suggested is toxic and highly unpleasant.

The really worryingly aspect of this uncontrolled illegal migration is that I don’t believe Starmer has any intention of properly getting to grips with it. He is after all, an ingrained human rights lawyer.

Yes,he might try to make all the right noises about smashing the gangs as he put it, but it’s just words.
Would he be willing to take us out of the ECHR if that’s what it takes? I wouldn’t put money on it.

By the way FGT2 I loved your take on that, along with growing the economy on another thread! Great!
Please don’t be put off by some of the comments on here.

Whitewavemark2

Allira

winterwhite

Well the threads on this subject are getting repetitive and nothing new is said. Migrants will carry on coming until conditions in their home countries improve. And that will require substantial increases in international aid. Is the British taxpayer up for that?

It's going to take more than aid, winterwhite

Civil wars are not stopped with aid. The aid goes to the countries and is hi-jacked before it can get to those in need.

A trope that is continually trotted out, and which will lead to millions of deaths as a result.

It is misleading and factually incorrect.

Government aid is almost always tied into a contract. By taking the aid away, thousands of women will die needlessly in childbirth, children, particularly girls will go uneducated. Millions of Children will die of disease..

That is not misleading and factually incorrect.

It is a fact and Governments, including the EU are well aware of the fact. That is why the EU temporarily stopped aid to Somalia
One senior EU official said the decision was taken after the U.N. investigation concluded that landowners, local authorities, members of the security forces and humanitarian workers were all involved in stealing aid intended for vulnerable people.

Aid to Ethiopia was temporarily suspended because of theft. “It’s systematic and it has been going on for a long, long time,” says a UN official, who adds that the theft appeared to be orchestrated at high levels of Ethiopia’s government.

It is a crisis.
press.un.org/en/2024/sc15651.doc.htm

But if it comforts you to believe it is untrue, then so be it.

Not only is it morally wrong to stop aid, it is extremely shortsighted by any country.

Trump has ceased all aid. Who is stepping in?

China of course.

Aid, as well as alleviating suffering or poverty also is a form of soft power used by every country, and most countries recognise this fact. Giving of aid has never been entirely altruistic.

Yes, of course corruption exists, it always has done, but this has never stopped governments because it has always been recognised as a very economic way to spread power and influence.

JenniferEccles

The really worryingly aspect of this uncontrolled illegal migration is that I don’t believe Starmer has any intention of properly getting to grips with it. He is after all, an ingrained human rights lawyer.

Yes,he might try to make all the right noises about smashing the gangs as he put it, but it’s just words.
Would he be willing to take us out of the ECHR if that’s what it takes? I wouldn’t put money on it.

By the way FGT2 I loved your take on that, along with growing the economy on another thread! Great!
Please don’t be put off by some of the comments on here.

What bit of the ECHR are you willing to give up on a personal level?

One of our greatest war leaders recognised the vital need for such rights to be written into law. He was right then and his legacy should be welcome by every single person whose rights are protected by this law.

How many minorities would want to see this law trashed? If you were Jewish or Muslim how would you feel knowing that peop,e are prepared to give away your rights?

Frankly I’d be s…t scared.

Primrose53

Someone mentioned all the immigrant Drs, nurses etc and how we should all be grateful. I don’t think anybody on here objects to them living and working here because they came here LEGALLY.

Many of us object to those coming illegally. Over 1,000 arriving here today on boats is madness.

Other countries have had enough and are tightening up or just deporting them or putting them in prison.

We need to toughen up too and make our country less attractive. They come here because they get everything on a plate unlike most other countries. We know they all have phones so they are telling their friends “come to England. It’s fantastic. They give us all this free stuff, dentists, healthcare, courses, clothes, pocket money etc”. Of course they want the same!

It is not toxic of FGT to start this thread because it is a massive concern and is the main topic on TV, radio and newspapers.

Very Well said…..👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
FGT you keep posting there are many on Gransnet who agree with you…

Whitewavemark2

Not only is it morally wrong to stop aid, it is extremely shortsighted by any country.

Trump has ceased all aid. Who is stepping in?

China of course.

Aid, as well as alleviating suffering or poverty also is a form of soft power used by every country, and most countries recognise this fact. Giving of aid has never been entirely altruistic.

Yes, of course corruption exists, it always has done, but this has never stopped governments because it has always been recognised as a very economic way to spread power and influence.

Of course aid is good. I didn't say otherwise.

I just stated the fact that the EU and UN had stopped sending aid to certain countries because of the hijacking and corruption involved.
They have started sending aid again.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Okay.
I won’t mention the huge numbers anymore. You all must think it’s acceptable, not worth mentioning - and that we can afford accommodation, 3 meals a day, clothes, a doctor and dentist on tap plus extras for all who wish to arrive.

I’m in the minority on here then, which I shall now accept. Not a peep from me going forward concerning this topic. 🤷‍♀️

Please, please keep posting. I dont think its acceptable what is happening. I am sure we are not in the minority, which is why .reform are doing so well. It does seem to be Gransnet is infiltrated by liberal lefties

Sago

Whitewavemark2

🙄

Toxic.

This is not toxic, this is a real issue that is of great concern to a lot of people.

Thousands of young men arriving without any papers.

We have a potential army landing on our shores, we are feeding, clothing and housing them, they will turn against us.

Yes they will turn against us.

Oh please stop banging on about liberal lefties. Most of those of us that are being branded as such are just left of centre. And I can see that there’s a problem. It’s just that I don’t actually want to lose my human rights in an attempt to solve a very complicated problem.

BlueBelle

This is in CHAT, GrannyGravy and FGT has bandied her anti immigration views to death so yes I was rude, sorry to offend you, but I m tired of it all

Oh Frogoet how I agree with your post
Our local hospital is so proud of the fact that the staff there come from 52 different countries and I ll tell you what I ve never had a nasty nurse, cleaner or doctor in that hospital
My dentists so far have come from Greece, South America Hungary and India
Why is everyone so scared, this country was built on immigration.
I have absolutely no problem with sending criminals right back where they came from and they can take some of our home grown variety back with them but this awful awful position of hate we are in now screams of Hitler s white blond haired regime think of that more closely and remember what followed

Why do you quote Hitler? Its rather obsessional.

Whitewavemark2

BlueBelle

This is in CHAT, GrannyGravy and FGT has bandied her anti immigration views to death so yes I was rude, sorry to offend you, but I m tired of it all

Oh Frogoet how I agree with your post
Our local hospital is so proud of the fact that the staff there come from 52 different countries and I ll tell you what I ve never had a nasty nurse, cleaner or doctor in that hospital
My dentists so far have come from Greece, South America Hungary and India
Why is everyone so scared, this country was built on immigration.
I have absolutely no problem with sending criminals right back where they came from and they can take some of our home grown variety back with them but this awful awful position of hate we are in now screams of Hitler s white blond haired regime think of that more closely and remember what followed

Yes.

One thread is innocent enough, - but it doesn’t stop at one - it is continuous in one form or another.

The continual drip, drip of anti-immigration with an underlying unpleasantness of division, violence, hate, racism and fear, is being reflected in so much of the SM echo chambers and is leading to the kind of society not seen in this country for decades or centuries.

You can see it in the USA with the foul actions being carried out there and although I suspect the Op thoroughly approves of Trump’s actions, I am confident that she would have very little support in this country - for which I am thankful.

Why are you confident? How can you possibly know? Doesnt the popularity of Reform give you a clue that you may be wrong?

Does anyone know what we spend? The official figures show we benefit overall.
As to fixing problems in the countries they come from-
From culture to war they are not fixed by a little aid!
Some of the complexities are here.
Not Farage or Daily Fail.
Net immigration 50%down .
Explains why we have so few doctors in Norfolk. Can’t get a dentist.
Our only crowds are tourists needing second homes.
One of our carers lives in Norwich. More worried about the flag wavers than any migrant. As am I.

Teazel2

BlueBelle

This is in CHAT, GrannyGravy and FGT has bandied her anti immigration views to death so yes I was rude, sorry to offend you, but I m tired of it all

Oh Frogoet how I agree with your post
Our local hospital is so proud of the fact that the staff there come from 52 different countries and I ll tell you what I ve never had a nasty nurse, cleaner or doctor in that hospital
My dentists so far have come from Greece, South America Hungary and India
Why is everyone so scared, this country was built on immigration.
I have absolutely no problem with sending criminals right back where they came from and they can take some of our home grown variety back with them but this awful awful position of hate we are in now screams of Hitler s white blond haired regime think of that more closely and remember what followed

Why do you quote Hitler? Its rather obsessional.

Unfortunately, in 1932 Germans dismissed concern about Hitler as obsessional - just as you are doing.

As to going back to Hitler-it’s tge perfect example of scapegoating which is going on in this thread. ‘They will turn against us’. Have you met any? Spoken to them.
With leave to stay they are exploited by low paid industry,

MayBee70

Oh please stop banging on about liberal lefties. Most of those of us that are being branded as such are just left of centre. And I can see that there’s a problem. It’s just that I don’t actually want to lose my human rights in an attempt to solve a very complicated problem.

Why would you lose your human rights? Even if we left the ECHR you would still have your human rights.

Frogoet

As to going back to Hitler-it’s tge perfect example of scapegoating which is going on in this thread. ‘They will turn against us’. Have you met any? Spoken to them.
With leave to stay they are exploited by low paid industry,

I feel its not acceptable to keep quoting Hitler just to try to induce some sort of guilt.

growstuff

Teazel2

BlueBelle

This is in CHAT, GrannyGravy and FGT has bandied her anti immigration views to death so yes I was rude, sorry to offend you, but I m tired of it all

Oh Frogoet how I agree with your post
Our local hospital is so proud of the fact that the staff there come from 52 different countries and I ll tell you what I ve never had a nasty nurse, cleaner or doctor in that hospital
My dentists so far have come from Greece, South America Hungary and India
Why is everyone so scared, this country was built on immigration.
I have absolutely no problem with sending criminals right back where they came from and they can take some of our home grown variety back with them but this awful awful position of hate we are in now screams of Hitler s white blond haired regime think of that more closely and remember what followed

Why do you quote Hitler? Its rather obsessional.

Unfortunately, in 1932 Germans dismissed concern about Hitler as obsessional - just as you are doing.

I so wish that Hitler would not keep being quoted as some sort of example. An example of what exactly? Are you suggesting that those of us worried about illegal immigration are comparable to Hitler?

*It’s the truth, the numbers arriving are not sustainable.

Keep stating the facts FGT, many do agree with you.*

Agree 100%

Farage wants to abolish the UK Human Rights Act 1998.

These are our rights under the act.

1. The right to life
2. The right to be free from torture and inhuman or degrading treatment
3. The right to be free from slavery or forced labour
4. The right to liberty and security
5. The right to a fair trial
6. The right not to be punished for something that wasn't against the law when you did it
7. The right to respect for private and family life, home and correspondence
8. The right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion
9. The right to freedom of expression
10. The right to freedom of assembly and association
11. The right to marry and start a family
12. The right to be free from discrimination
13. The right to peaceful enjoyment of possessions
14. The right to education
15. The right to free elections
16. Abolition of the death penalty

Farage wants to take all these away.

Take 15 minutes to watch Richard Murphy explain and expand on how we will all be affected if Farage ever comes to power.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt0fB-5S388

If you cannot imagine how the removal of these rights might affect you then read the examples given by the British Institute of Human Rights under each section headed How might this right be relevant to my life?

www.bihr.org.uk/get-informed/what-rights-do-i-have

If you cannot see the parallels with Hitler (and Trump) you are deluding yourself.

So you would just allow anyone into the country who claimed to be an asylum seeker then ? Without any checking, without any questions asked? Never mind that they have jumped a queue and are probably making the queue even longer for genuine people who have been oppressed and possibly tortured . Madness.

nanna8

So you would just allow anyone into the country who claimed to be an asylum seeker then ? Without any checking, without any questions asked? Never mind that they have jumped a queue and are probably making the queue even longer for genuine people who have been oppressed and possibly tortured . Madness.

Where does it say that the Human Rights Act allows anybody into the country? It doesn't!! This is a straw man argument.

Teazel2

growstuff

Teazel2

BlueBelle

This is in CHAT, GrannyGravy and FGT has bandied her anti immigration views to death so yes I was rude, sorry to offend you, but I m tired of it all

Oh Frogoet how I agree with your post
Our local hospital is so proud of the fact that the staff there come from 52 different countries and I ll tell you what I ve never had a nasty nurse, cleaner or doctor in that hospital
My dentists so far have come from Greece, South America Hungary and India
Why is everyone so scared, this country was built on immigration.
I have absolutely no problem with sending criminals right back where they came from and they can take some of our home grown variety back with them but this awful awful position of hate we are in now screams of Hitler s white blond haired regime think of that more closely and remember what followed

Why do you quote Hitler? Its rather obsessional.

Unfortunately, in 1932 Germans dismissed concern about Hitler as obsessional - just as you are doing.

I so wish that Hitler would not keep being quoted as some sort of example. An example of what exactly? Are you suggesting that those of us worried about illegal immigration are comparable to Hitler?

I'm suggesting that the propaganda techniques used to scare people are similar.

The reason Hitler's Germany is quoted is because the era is just about within living memory and it's an example of humanity going horribly wrong - caused by humans themselves. It should act as a warning to us all.