You need to ask your baby’s permission before changing his or her nappy….

Message withdrawn as it quotes a deleted post.

Yes absolutely Rosie51.

Mt61

Mt61

WE. they do belong to the parents, until they are at an age to make their own minds up.

I say they belong to the parents but agree with Caleo, that some parents need to learn how to parent.
Local authority is getting a large house ready near me, for exactly this purpose.

I'm totally in favour of parents being supported and helped in their parenting, but I hope they aren't 'taught' that there is only one acceptable way to parent.

Magenta8 I did quote Deanne Carson in my earlier post at 01.02.50 where she mentions body language and eye contact.

Mt61

WE. they do belong to the parents, until they are at an age to make their own minds up.

I say they belong to the parents but agree with Caleo, that some parents need to learn how to parent.
Local authority is getting a large house ready near me, for exactly this purpose.

WE. they do belong to the parents, until they are at an age to make their own minds up.

Poppyred

I read in the paper today……

This has to be a joke, yes? Honestly, as if.

Poppyred

I read in the paper today……

Newspapers don't only transmit facts they also teach attitudes Some attitudes are unscientific and some attitudes are harmful. Not every journalist is free to tell the truth . Many journalists work for newspapers that belong to not very honest people.

So, which newspaper did you read it in? Did you ask what was the source of the allegation?

PS, learning their native language includes , besides learning vocabulary and whole sentences, also includes the caregiver's attitudes to touching another person's body and mind.

M0nica

Most babies will cry and wriggle and scream if you try to do anything to them that they do not like. Would anyone let a baby or child travel in a car without any safety restraint just becausethey kicked up a fuss?

When we see tv programmes about other societies, large primates, for example, commentators will always talk approvingly about the way the babiess and juveniles are taught to socialise and learn to fit in with wider society and adults. Why does this change when it is human babies?

Talking to a baby while interacting with it is instinctive adult and baby interaction. This is how babies learn to vocalise then speak. Parents or adults who do not chatter to their children are the ones inneedof guidance.

Indeed talking about what is taking place is how a child learns their native language. There should be a few parenthood classes in every curriculum.

For generations children have learnt that their bodies are private and other people should not touch them.

But knowing that and being able to implement it when faced with older bigger stronger people, often in positions of authority insisting that the child does what they want is another thing altogether.

Plus in the past because there was such a taboo against such touching - and children knew it - meant that it became something that no one ever talked about and was horrified and often blamed the children if it was ever made public.

It is not the children that need to be told their bodies are there own. What they need to know where and how to report it and to understand that the threat can come from their nearest and dearest, even their parents.

Quite how a small baby can be taught to report any contravention of its privacy, I am not sure.

RosieandherMaw I would just like to make it very clear that I was trying, obviously failing, to be ironic when I made the statement about the papers. Hence the grin at the end.

Also I don't think the originator of the statement was setting out to be a sensation seeker and to be quoted out of context.

Having read what she actually said in some detail, I think that the introducing the concept of consent for intimate touching was aimed at the adults involved as well as the child.

There have been many documented cases of sexually abused young children being kept in ignorance and not realising that what was being done to them was wrong.

I have not read the article but if it is in the paper it must be true

How much tosh is spread by gossip/social media/sensation seekers.
Why argue about such nonsense?
And just because it’s in the paper is far from being any guarantee of its veracity.

Well, I used to ask 😀
"Shall we go and change your nappy, make you nice and comfy?"
But never waited for a reply. Bad Mother!

I think I may have tracked down the original statement on the BBC website.

Over seven years ago Deanne Carson talked about "setting up a culture of consent." she went on to qualify this by saying "Of course a baby's not going to respond and say "Yes, mum."

The press naturally pounced on her with glee and chose to ignore her qualifying statement.

I think the issue is that changing a nappy involves cleaning the genital-anal area and Deanne Carson was recommending an early introduction of the concept of consent for intimate touching.

Unlike the press and some GNs, I don't believe the principle was meant to be applied to all areas of parental control.

I think most Mums talk soothingly to their babies when changing their nappies, to distract them from wriggling about.
Changing baby DGS nappy was a two man operation!😁

Summerlove

Mt61

I’ve heard it all now. So sick of the whole woke brigade 🤦‍♀️.
Children belong to the parents, not the state. It should be up to them how they bring up their kids.

Children don’t “belong” to anyone.

Teaching consent is hardly “woke”

I wouldn’t call it ‘woke’ - just daft, to think anyone should need to ask a very tiny child’s permission to do something that’s essential for their health/wellbeing. Should we also ask their permission before washing them, brushing their teeth, taking them for routine vaccinations?

Teaching an older child about ‘consent’ via e.g. the NSPCC ‘pants’ programme is a different matter.

Summerlove

Mt61

I’ve heard it all now. So sick of the whole woke brigade 🤦‍♀️.
Children belong to the parents, not the state. It should be up to them how they bring up their kids.

Children don’t “belong” to anyone.

Teaching consent is hardly “woke”

I totally agree Summerlove:

I have not read the article but if it is in the paper it must be true.

It sounds like the usual conflation that so many journalists go in for.

It’s not really asking their permission though is it? It’s just introducing the language of consent from an early age which is no bad thing. I used to do this with my now teenager.

I'm absolutely killing myself laughing about the entire thing! I'm child-free by choice, but if I had them and said ''Dearest little baby, only one day old, please may I change your stinking poopy nappy?!'' Baby said ''No, I'm suing you for assault and child abuse!''

BBC News. ''A 27-year-old Indian man plans to sue his parents for giving birth to him without his consent.

Mumbai businessman Raphael Samuel told the BBC that it's wrong to bring children into the world because they then have to put up with lifelong suffering.''

''A demand like this could cause a rift within any family, but Mr Samuel says he gets along very well with his parents, both of whom are lawyers, and they appear to be dealing with it with a lot of humour.''

Most babies will cry and wriggle and scream if you try to do anything to them that they do not like. Would anyone let a baby or child travel in a car without any safety restraint just becausethey kicked up a fuss?

When we see tv programmes about other societies, large primates, for example, commentators will always talk approvingly about the way the babiess and juveniles are taught to socialise and learn to fit in with wider society and adults. Why does this change when it is human babies?

Talking to a baby while interacting with it is instinctive adult and baby interaction. This is how babies learn to vocalise then speak. Parents or adults who do not chatter to their children are the ones inneedof guidance.

The human race is doomed...

Grammaretto

I remember grabbing a wriggly baby and practically pinning him down to change his nappy. No permission given.
Another time, my nephew aged 1, refused to lie down so I managed while he was standing up. His mum was most impressed.
I'll need to remind him of that....

How can a 1 year old child refuse to lie down? If he is calling the shots at that age, heaven help you when he’s older!

Galaxy

I have done a lot of personal care for children and adults, I would always always talk to them about what was happening. People do it naturally. I actually can't think of many carers, childcare staff who don't do this.

This isn’t about whether or not you talk to them. It’s about asking their permission before changing their nappy. Utter madness, I think.

Mt61

I’ve heard it all now. So sick of the whole woke brigade 🤦‍♀️.
Children belong to the parents, not the state. It should be up to them how they bring up their kids.

Children don’t “belong” to anyone.

Teaching consent is hardly “woke”

I remember grabbing a wriggly baby and practically pinning him down to change his nappy. No permission given.
Another time, my nephew aged 1, refused to lie down so I managed while he was standing up. His mum was most impressed.
I'll need to remind him of that....