Parents fined for non school attendance ...

It would have been very nice not to have been cross-questioned about not sending ours by "random strangers" ...

I can’t see where random strangers would have the opportunity to cross question or criticise you over choice of schooling, but on the other hand I’ve just that’s exactly what some random strangers have done about the RF on another thread.

That's really interesting theworriedwell because at one point we looked at moving to an extremely rural place with no local home educators on the radar at all.

If we had moved we may well have found ourselves in your situation - although with five of them it wasn't going to be lonely at home.

Of course, Mollygo I can see you are seeing a different side to home education than the one we saw, which was largely (but not exclusively of course) positive - and no, why would you question parents on why they chose to enrol their children?

It would have been very nice not to have been cross-questioned about not sending ours by "random strangers" ... I have always felt this was a personal decision for families to make but so many adults who didn't know us at all seemed to think that by not sending ours we were judging them and so were, sadly, fairly hostile.

Horses for courses... I do know families with some children at school and some at home. I feel, whatever works best, ideally should pertain.

Granmarderby10

It has dawned on me in recent years that collectively we are hooked on the notion that school is where children go.
And for no logical reason other than it has always been so.

I don’t agree with obligatory school uniforms either.

Those who think the benefits of attending a school and the wearing of a particular type of clothing while there will always bestow a superior experience of education and indeed childhood generally, and it will prepare a person for life? ..well it frequently has not done so and continues to fail in this respect at least for a considerable portion of the population.

I love comments like this, without suggestion of what should take the place of school.

It has dawned on me in recent years that collectively we are hooked on the notion that school is where children go.
And for no logical reason other than it has always been so.

I don’t agree with obligatory school uniforms either.

Those who think the benefits of attending a school and the wearing of a particular type of clothing while there will always bestow a superior experience of education and indeed childhood generally, and it will prepare a person for life? ..well it frequently has not done so and continues to fail in this respect at least for a considerable portion of the population.

NotSpaghetti

I think theworriedwell actually said she wanted the social side with local kids she knew - so obviously she already knew (and presumably played with) these local children and wanted to spend more time with them - and actually liked being with them at school some of the time.

This really is not quite the same as missing out on sleepovers and playing - which presumably could (or did) happen anyway.

In our case the wanting more of the social side of school came up after we moved. Originally we lived in an area with lots of home ed families and activities but when we moved that disappeared. She made friends at brownies, dance class etc but still meant school days were more isolated. The second thing was we always intended that shd would go to senior school so once she went into school at nine we didn't go back to home educated even though she hated school, well some of the time she was happy sometimes not.

I don't think we particularly prove anything about home ed or about school. It was how circumstances played out. In our case I regret letting her go to primary school, I have no regrets about her years at home or about her time at grammar school.

Exactly NotSpaghetti
You are one of the many families for whom home-ed was a success.
We may know such families out of school, but in school, we only see those children whose parents (I don’t deal with KS3-4) put them into school for the reasons they quote.
I’ve never needed to grill the parents about their reasons.

The daughter of a good friend went into school at 13 as she felt that she "didn't know where she was" educationally as against her peers. She actively chose to go to school that year as she wanted to try it out.
She already had "out of school" friends though and at 13 they did spend hours together.

She stayed at school for about a year - two terms at least and was in the top two or three students in everything except for one subject (can't remember which). She decided that school was a waste of time and left.
She did make a new friend there who later went to the same university so although the social side was rather catty, bullying and altogether not very nice she did take that friendship a bonus.
They are in their 50s now and still friends.

I think theworriedwell actually said she wanted the social side with local kids she knew - so obviously she already knew (and presumably played with) these local children and wanted to spend more time with them - and actually liked being with them at school some of the time.

This really is not quite the same as missing out on sleepovers and playing - which presumably could (or did) happen anyway.

Oh OK.
As home-educators the social side was definitely one of the easiest bits of not sending children to school in my experience! On a day to day basis we (and they) had more control over who they spent the days with - and then about four times a year we would join big gatherings where we would live alongside each other for long weekends and make new and different friendships.

I really don't understand this.
Were the people you refer to trying to replicate a school at home I wonder? I think that would definitely make life harder.

The families we knew (and us) were always open to sleepovers etc.

Re socialising in school - I'm honestly not sure how useful that is as a life lesson.
Nowhere else are you spending hours of every day with (say) 30 people with whom you may not share anything other than a year of birth...
I won't comment on the socially dubious behaviors which are hard to deal with in a school.

NotSpaghetti

^Your post does highlight one of the problems of home ed.^
I think you have tried to explain what you meant by this, Mollygo but I still don't understand.
What are you referring to please?

In my experience, there are 2 main reasons for home ed children being brought into school.
One reason is the problem of children missing out on the social side of school or with friends they know locally.

That was the reason mentioned by tww for moving her child from home ed into school.

Not just socialising in school, but play-dates and sleepovers within friendship groups developed in school, are often arranged at the school gates.

It isn’t always a problem. You only have to read a plethora of posts from people who have managed home-ed successfully, including the social side of things.

Out of school, over my years in teaching, I’ve known a few home-ed families.

In school, we don’t see those children, or their parents.

We only see those children and parents who want their children back in the school system and who give reasons for their decision. The social side is one reason given. I’ve simply highlighted this.

Your post does highlight one of the problems of home ed.
I think you have tried to explain what you meant by this, Mollygo but I still don't understand.
What are you referring to please?

I don't see children being allowed an opinion on their education is a home ed problem. On the contrary I think it shows a strength rather than just putting them into school at 4 without any consideration of how they feel.
???
Who has said children being allowed an opinion on their education is wrong?

Mollygo

No I don’t mean anything about the education of either sort. Your opinion of the teacher is your opinion.
The two main reasons I have experience of for home ed children being reentered into school are:
- The parents are no longer able to continue the home-ed, for whatever reason.
- The children are missing out on the social side of school, which was your given reason.
Just occasionally we have had children who have been taken into care who are reintroduced to school.
There are other children who are successfully home-educated whose parents negotiate both those hurdles. Certainly there is a lot more support and resources for doing that now.

I don't see children being allowed an opinion on their education is a home ed problem. On the contrary I think it shows a strength rather than just putting them into school at 4 without any consideration of how they feel.

No I don’t mean anything about the education of either sort. Your opinion of the teacher is your opinion.
The two main reasons I have experience of for home ed children being reentered into school are:
- The parents are no longer able to continue the home-ed, for whatever reason.
- The children are missing out on the social side of school, which was your given reason.
Just occasionally we have had children who have been taken into care who are reintroduced to school.
There are other children who are successfully home-educated whose parents negotiate both those hurdles. Certainly there is a lot more support and resources for doing that now.

Mollygo

I’ve really enjoyed this thread, but Yes I think the DH was a sandwich short of a picnic. is the best yet.

There are teachers who aren’t perfect. I remember one from my own school days, whose class we were all desperate to avoid.

That’s why you have a head and governors.

If nothing is reported by the child to the parent, (she never told us about it), who then reports nothing to the head or the governors, (even deputy heads are not immune from criticism being dealt with), there will be no satisfactory outcome for anyone.

Nowadays you can see parents who rattle off complaints about teachers on their “select” internet parent groups. Some of the things they say could actually class as slander or even libel since it’s written down.
But they still leave their children in the class and the school and don’t approach the head or the governors.

We find out either from membership of the select group or from those who are in it and are concerned about what is being said and report it to the head/governors.

I’m sorry your daughter suffered, but sorrier still that nothing was done until a Governor witnessed two incidents. I wonder why the governor hadn’t been around before. Obviously the events would have been reported by the governor to the head and possibly to the CoG for investigation.
Your post does highlight one of the problems of home ed.

Just to clarify she hadn't told us about being told she was a nuisance by finishing her work too quickly, she had told us more which we reported. There would be some improvement but it would slide back into the same pattern.

I'm not clear about what the problem of home ed I've highlighted is? Do you mean the spite and vindictive behaviour if a teacher who feels so threatened by a child who has been home educated and is higher achieving than children who have been in school for several years. I think that isn't a problem of home ed.

I’ve really enjoyed this thread, but Yes I think the DH was a sandwich short of a picnic. is the best yet.

There are teachers who aren’t perfect. I remember one from my own school days, whose class we were all desperate to avoid.

That’s why you have a head and governors.

If nothing is reported by the child to the parent, (she never told us about it), who then reports nothing to the head or the governors, (even deputy heads are not immune from criticism being dealt with), there will be no satisfactory outcome for anyone.

Nowadays you can see parents who rattle off complaints about teachers on their “select” internet parent groups. Some of the things they say could actually class as slander or even libel since it’s written down.
But they still leave their children in the class and the school and don’t approach the head or the governors.

We find out either from membership of the select group or from those who are in it and are concerned about what is being said and report it to the head/governors.

I’m sorry your daughter suffered, but sorrier still that nothing was done until a Governor witnessed two incidents. I wonder why the governor hadn’t been around before. Obviously the events would have been reported by the governor to the head and possibly to the CoG for investigation.
Your post does highlight one of the problems of home ed.

Yes I think the DH was a sandwich short of a picnic.

She started school because she wanted the social side with local kids she knew. Why we didn't take her out again is hard to explain, there were bits she liked, her best friend, her time in the gifted and talented group, periods when things would improve after lots of pressure from us. Her first year wasn't so bad it was when she went into the deputy heads class that it got worse. Some of it she just accepted like the being a nuisance thing which she never told us about.

I have many regrets about it.

theworriedwell

Her teacher was the deputy head and we got no real acknowledgement or help. The DH hated the fact DD had been home educated for four years and was ahead of the kids who had followed the conventional route. Other teachers were uncomfortable but she was a bully and they never stop up to her. It was her final half term when a governor witnessed two incidents before what was going on was acknowledged. A crying deputy head begging us not to take it further and apologising. Too little too late.

Wow!

First step.
See the head.
Second step go to governors.

As a Governor I’ve been involved dealing with parental complaints and though parents aren’t always completely satisfied they know a situation will be addressed.
Frequently even those unsatisfied strangely enough don't want to move their children.

If I had successfully home educated I would have gone back to home ed straight away. What made you decide to abandon home ed?

Your statement about the crying deputy leaves me confused. Since a Governor was already involved, it had already been taken further.

Her teacher was the deputy head and we got no real acknowledgement or help. The DH hated the fact DD had been home educated for four years and was ahead of the kids who had followed the conventional route. Other teachers were uncomfortable but she was a bully and they never stop up to her. It was her final half term when a governor witnessed two incidents before what was going on was acknowledged. A crying deputy head begging us not to take it further and apologising. Too little too late.

theworriedwell

I never saw any differentiation for my child from her primary school teachers. She was so happy when one teacher was off for a term and she happily told me how she loved the supply teacher. When I asked her why she said she never shouted at her and told her she was a nuisance. I said I hoped she wasn't a nuisance and she said Mrs X always shouts when I finish my worksheet and says I'm a nuisance. Miss Y gives me harder worksheets so I'm not a nuisance.

Differentiation? If it wasn't so sad and did so much damage I'd laugh.

That’s sad
I’m not sure how long ago your child was at school, but evidently differentiation was already in action so it’s strange your child wasn’t given something more challenging if she always finished quickly and correctly.

I’m presuming that your child had already trusted you with her unhappy experiences before the teacher was off.

What was the response when you followed this up with the school?

I never saw any differentiation for my child from her primary school teachers. She was so happy when one teacher was off for a term and she happily told me how she loved the supply teacher. When I asked her why she said she never shouted at her and told her she was a nuisance. I said I hoped she wasn't a nuisance and she said Mrs X always shouts when I finish my worksheet and says I'm a nuisance. Miss Y gives me harder worksheets so I'm not a nuisance.

Differentiation? If it wasn't so sad and did so much damage I'd laugh.

I’ll be interested to watch the evolution described by Granmarderby10. We are often expected to produce a curriculum specific to every child’s needs.
Schools and teachers do their best by differentiation and provision of support where possible.
Even in early years where a group of children might all have different schemas of play, providing opportunities for all those children to develop their learning in these different ways needs time, organisation and adult support.
With home ed, where parents are educating their own one or few children each at different age groups and stages, it would be easier.
For some children, it might well be the best thing.
Over my time as a parent and teacher I’ve known parents with time to spend with their children and the money and opportunity to obtain and arrange resources, teach their children and arrange meet-up groups with other home ed children.
Some of them have been successful, others less so. You do tend to only hear from those whose children have been successful after home ed, which is great, but it isn’t true for all.

I’ve seen parents who opted for home ed asking me for work for their child whose sibling I taught previously and other parents who have asked for a place at school because home ed isn’t working. That can be difficult if there are no places available, especially if their other child is already at the school.

Granmarderby10

I see home education or rather less orthodox schooling becoming increasingly usual or common in future.

After all for the most part going to school has really been all about allowing parents to get on with other stuff -such as going to work rather than the true education it could be.

It is just ingrained in our culture but as with many work place changes such as work from home or hybrid hours, education will gradually evolve away from school buildings to being more about the child’s prospects.

😲

I do hope not.
Some parents home school because they believe it's best for their children, it could be, but there will be others, as evidenced during lockdowns, that use it as an excuse.

I'm not in favour of home schooling myself, leave it to the professionals, especially at secondary level.

eazybee
Don't you remember all the complaints during Covid, from parents who had to work from home and were also expected to supervise, help or even administer the online or paper lessons?

Strange that.
I thought parents working from home meant that they actually did work, but apparently it will be reconfigured so that the parents may spend their work hours educating their children, obviously so much better than trained, experienced professionals.