Goodbye Duke & Duchess of York.

LovesBach

The family who seemingly did little to help her, and the father who organised the kind of employment most fathers would be horrified to discover their daughter was involved with, are suddenly 'crying with relief' and feeling that the events 'vindicate Virginia'. Quite sickening - and possibly a case for more publications and money grabbing.

How are step-siblongs supposed to help a sister when they had a father like that? Brought up in a chaotic household?

Victim blaming yet again.

There was not one single 'alleged' incident. It was a lengthy sustained period of calculated sexual abuse.

The victim's background and upbringing was such that she was easily manipulated and easily taken in by dishonest promises and the lure of a lifestyle she could only dream of. Much the same as all the other girls caught up in the sleazy, tawdry and depraved lifestyle of Epstein and his cronies.

Victim blaming and shaming is such an ugly way of explaining away the misfortunes of those who are faced with sexual predators.

The family who seemingly did little to help her, and the father who organised the kind of employment most fathers would be horrified to discover their daughter was involved with, are suddenly 'crying with relief' and feeling that the events 'vindicate Virginia'. Quite sickening - and possibly a case for more publications and money grabbing.

I think to lump all the royals as an over privileged and irrelevant lot is unfair, Andrew certainly was and is an appalling example if ever there was one. Here's what the Observer has to say about William, under the title of "Fresh Prince" Andrew is disgraced. Harry has gone. William plans for a downsized monarchy, with fewer people on the balcony and a bigger impact on the ground. At its head will be a man who carries his own bags, cooks spag bol for his family - and knows what to say when he sits down with a child who whispers "I lost my mother" They may be uncle and nephew, but worlds apart.

On the subject of young girls and prostitution I don't think for one moment that is ever a life style choice, as in "what do I want to be, oh a prostitute sounds good lucrative career" coercion and trickery by someone more powerful is often the slippery downward slope that finds young women mere disposable pawns.

eazybee

Virginia Guiffre was a paid prostitute at the time the alleged incident took place.
Vulnerable yes, but look to her family, who were not there when she was living on the streets as a young teenager.
Then her father found her a job at Mar -a- Lago as a masseuse.
Now exploiting her for every penny they can.

Victim blaming?

🤔

Fergie is not being let off the hook. The MOS gets a lot of flak on Gransnet as does anyone who dares to admit reading it but quite frankly I’d rather know that the then Duchess of York was one of the first to celebrate Epstein’s release from prison, accompanied by both her daughters.
I suspect once again it was his money that attracted her loyalty.
So much has been swept under the carpet.

Women who are used by those men who buy sex are generally very vulnerable. We don't just sacrifice vulnerable women to these vile men.

Virginia Guiffre was a paid prostitute at the time the alleged incident took place.
Vulnerable yes, but look to her family, who were not there when she was living on the streets as a young teenager.
Then her father found her a job at Mar -a- Lago as a masseuse.
Now exploiting her for every penny they can.

They will probably make millions writing a book.

Virginia Guiffre was quite clear that Andrew knew she had been trafficked. So let's believe the victim to whom he paid millions rather than the abuser who bought his way out a court case and likely prison sentence

Oh please. He might not be the sharpest nail in the box but he stayed in Epstein's townhouse on his visits where young girls were ushered in and out sometimes all day long and the walls covered in, well, let's be polite and say 'questionable' artwork featuring young girls. He went to Epstein's private Caribbean island more than once where girls were flown in for the pleasure of the guests. The redacted names on the flight list are quite possibly those of underage girls. How could he NOT know

winterwhite

Yes, ferry23, you’re right but I didn’t think that Andrew had been accused of procuring and trafficking. It’s plausible that he didn’t realise it was happening. He doesn’t appear to be a deep thinker.
I don’t question the seriousness of Epstein’s convictions , of course I don’t, I just wonder whether Andrew is paying an excessively high price for his own degree of involvement because he is already unpopular and disliked for other reasons.

I tend to agree with you, Winterwhite.

Primrose53

I feel sorry for their daughters. They are a bit dippy but seem like nice young women. They have had very privileged lives.

I still wonder how Andrew can give £13 million to the woman he claims he never had anything to do with.

Don't be fooled into thinking they haven't taken advantage of their parent's wealthy contacts. But I suppose they were brought up knowing no different.

I feel sorry for their daughters. They are a bit dippy but seem like nice young women. They have had very privileged lives.

I still wonder how Andrew can give £13 million to the woman he claims he never had anything to do with.

Aveline

I don't think Andrew or Sarah can be very bright.

Lol. Says it all really 😄😄

I don't think Andrew or Sarah can be very bright.

Yes, ferry23, you’re right but I didn’t think that Andrew had been accused of procuring and trafficking. It’s plausible that he didn’t realise it was happening. He doesn’t appear to be a deep thinker.
I don’t question the seriousness of Epstein’s convictions , of course I don’t, I just wonder whether Andrew is paying an excessively high price for his own degree of involvement because he is already unpopular and disliked for other reasons.

ferry23

Following the accusations earlier this week, Prince Andrew has relinquished his title Duke of York. Same for his ex-wife.

He will still keep his title of Prince Andrew.

But I guess that's the end of the titled road for Fergie.

Meghan should take note.

Curlywhirly

The timing of this is interesting. Could it be that Andrew (and the King) are expecting more unsavoury revelations to be revealed in Virginia Guiffre's book launch on Tuesday?

What is far more interesting , is that the RF is sending the loudest clearest warning to Harry and Meghan,

THIS IS WHAT WE CAN DO TO YOU TOO.

Let’s face it we, most of us have feet of clay, and the RF are no different to us.
To me they are now an irrelevance, I wouldn’t want a revolution, heaven forfend but they should quietly just fade into the background.
The Foreign Royals have done so and manage very well without a President.
If we have a government, that is surely enough, the RF have absolutely no influence or power.
I have no strong views on any other matter, religion, politics, are of little significance to me as long as nothing really dreadful takes place but over privileged individuals eave me cold.
Prince Andrew and his wife have exploited their titles and privilege to excess and are now learning it catches up in the end.

OldFrill

Labradora

Isn't a Prince better than a Duke ?
Insofar as one can know at all therefore like/dislike anyone who is basically a celebrity , I never liked Andrew but only because I understood that he was horrible to his staff , which I found unforgiveable.
What a shame he ( or indeed anyone) got involved with this hideous, sordid couple of Epstein(and Maxwell).
I have never minded Sarah too much because she has never, to my knowledge, said an unkind or disloyal word about her ex-husband and surely that should count for something.
What are they all going to do about Maxwell ?
They can't kill her now she is out of the tough jail , it would look too suspicious .
I suppose they'll have to make it worth her while to keep quiet.
Actually I'm astonished that she's still alive.

I don't think standing by your husband when he is having sex with a trafficked, vulnerable young woman something a wife should be commended for.
The lies Sarah has told over the years are second to none.
She neither treated her staff well, nor always paid them.
Who murdered Epstein.

Again it's a point of view , Old Frill.
I don't know who murdered Epstein but I think somebody did, as do many people. Epstein's former lawyer was on CNN umpty months ago saying that Epstein was enthusiastically making plans to appeal convictions or fight a pending case (I can't remember which).Also Epstein didn't strike me as the suicidal type. I think, at least, someone threatened him or someone he cared for, with something and invited Epstein to kill himself as an alternative. I have no proof of this.

petra

Labradora
She’s hardly going to bite the hand that feeds her, is she 🤷‍♀️
The only personal money she’s ever had is what she’s ponced or conned off other people who thought there might be something in it for them ( and I don’t mean rumpy pumpy ) 😂

Its a point of view, Petra , but I thought also they that they were both focussed on supporting their daughters successfully which they seem to have done.
I thought therefore that there was some respect between them beyond just Andrew paying the bills.
Who knows.

Lord Porchester was the late Queen racing manager, many many photographs of them together at the races, they both loved horse racing, the press decided they were having an affair, they had a long life friendship, their families had been friends too, the press suddenly became gutter press

lemsip

it's sad that Virginia Guiffre' is not alive to promote her book!

Prince Andrew could not be allowed alongside William and other royals as he was at the Duchess of Kents funeral again!

I think there's a a difference between being banished from your role as a Royal and everything that comes with it, and being banished from your family.

The Duchess of Kent's funeral was private but of course attracted press attention. So it was a family occasion. It woudn't surprise me if the Duke and Duchess of Sussex received an invitation. This is a family that follows etiquette to the "nth" degree.

Having said that, the photos of Prince Andrew and his ex wife laughing and joking on the steps of Westminster Cathedral were very telling, as were those of the Prince of Wales' uncomfortable stance next to them.

I'm sure many would like to banish him from the family, but I suppose there is always some element of familial regard that must be difficult to handle.

His total inability to read the room together with a misplaced sense of entitlement has finally come home to roost.

it's sad that Virginia Guiffre' is not alive to promote her book!

Prince Andrew could not be allowed alongside William and other royals as he was at the Duchess of Kents funeral again!