Can Intelligence Really be Measured by a Test?

Retread

Crossstitchfan

It’s hard knowing you are getting old. For me, when I feel a bit age-worn, I think that knowing I could have joined Mensa has given me a boost. At 80, on days when I do something silly, and realise how ancient I am, I cheer myself up by thinking, ‘I could have joined Mensa! I am nobody’s fool!’ It does help me to feel like a somebody and not a nobody. Daft really, I suppose.

I think that's brilliant

And that approach works both ways - when my friend's husband (the MENSA man) asks her for help with the cryptic crossword, she is known to jokingly respond "You're the genius, work it out!"

Thank you, Retread.
Being Mensa material doesn’t mean one is brainy (well, it does in some cases, but not in mine). General knowledge is not my thing at all. I am quite thick regarding that! I suppose the only difference I see between me and friends (and previously, colleagues) is that I am pretty quick on the uptake and can quite often suggest solutions to problems where others can’t. I think the greatest advantage for me is that it boosts my confidence on ‘down’ days. At 80, it’s easy to feel stupid and forgotten, but I don’t feel that at all, and wonder if it is because of Mensa. In any event, I’m glad I took the test.

Crossstitchfan. I hope I didn't give the impression that I think that the MENSA intelligence test is rubbish, I don't. You must have a speedy and logical brain to be MENSA standard. As you say you are quick on the uptake and you are good at problem solving.

In Primary 6 and 7, we had tests, more or less out of the blue. there was certainly no time to prepare for them. They were what I later came to know as 'verbal reasoning' tests. On the basis of our results we were allocated to various streams of secondary school. It was quite surprising to discover which of us arrived in the top stream! After six years, most of us achieved decent exam results and many went on the higher education. Where are we all now?

Luckygirl3

IQ tests test the ability to do IQ tests - that is all.

Whether that ability leads to a happier and more successful life no-one knows.

What makes you think that a high IQ of itself is meant to lead to a happier and more successful life?

However there are flaws in the argument that because a score in a test improves with practice it makes the test invalid. There is a big difference between improving with practice and being outstandingly brilliant, often without practice.

For example I have never tried my hand at making pottery. Give me a piece of clay and show me a wheel and ask me to make a pot. The result would be a dismal failure.

Send me on a course to learn pottery and I will get the knack and be able to turn out a pot or jug, but, even if I were to practice all day every day for months I would not be producing more than mediocre to average pots. I would certainly not be producing the exquisite works of Lucy Rie or Bernard Leach.

It is exactly the same with IQ tests. certainly results can improve with practice, but those who have a natural gift for something will always do far better, often without practicing.

All the evidence points to those having the highest academic attainments, those involved in academia and making the great scientific discoveries all had well above average scores in intelligence tests.

The measurements of IQ are considerably better than the assessments for all the other forms of intelligence that have been predicated, but never fully proven, by one or two reearchers.

It depends on your definition of intelligence? I know some really intelligent people but they haven't got an ounce of common sense. And forget getting them to do anything practical.

Magenta8

*Crossstitchfan*. I hope I didn't give the impression that I think that the MENSA intelligence test is rubbish, I don't. You must have a speedy and logical brain to be MENSA standard. As you say you are quick on the uptake and you are good at problem solving.

I agree!

Magenta8 and Retread, - don’t worry! I don’t take offence and, anyway, you didn’t give that impression at all.
I think some people regard passing the Test as some sort of badge of honour! For me, it was just something I did for fun (with encouragement from an over-excitable friend! She spotted something about it in her paper and persuaded me to go for it). Mensa sent me a trial test, which I was asked to do under supervised conditions. The friend who persuaded me, watched me like a hawk! As a retired teacher, she was perfect for making sure I didn’t cheat. I then sent the completed test off to Mensa who then suggested I took the ‘official’ test, as my IQ was apparently 152! Well, I fell for the flattery and had to go to a sports hall in a nearby town where I, and several others, took the timed test under the supervision of a member of the Mensa staff. It was all good fun, but to be fair, it hasn’t made a difference to me in my working life. It’s just given me a big head! 😂
And Whiff- you are absolutely correct, many high IQ people are thick as planks!

Luckygirl3, I can see your point, but can’t quite agree. You said, ‘IQ tests test the ability to do IQ tests’. True, but if you don’t have the intelligence to start with, you won’t be able to do them.
I don’t know exactly how it works but the Tests were designed in such a way that people with a low IQ would not be able to pass them. They are also timed, so there is pressure from that too.
Anyway, I loved taking it, (I now enjoy doing them for fun if I can find them) but I know it’s each to his own.

Well done Crossstitchfan getting a score of 152 is pretty impressive and if it's given you confidence, that's got to be good for you. I'm still pretty good with number and word type puzzles but I've noticed I'm less good with spatial type tests, definitely not as quick as I used to be but I think that's normal once we get into our 70's.

foxie48

I find genetics absolutely fascinating. My sister and I have very different intellectual abilities although neither of us has suffered any medical reason for this disparity. It is just how we are. I think Mensa tests are a bit like beauty contests, as the people taking part are just demonstrating what they were born with rather than what they have worked for, bit like the size of their feet or the colour of their eyes.

Well said.
I did pass the 11+ and it wasn't for my looks (if it was I'd have failed!).

I do think beauty might be only skin deep but it does seem to help people become successful in life.

Intelligence is a funny thing. My late DH was a smashing engineer (Cambridge mechanical sciences tripos) and lifelong private pilot after National Service in the RAF.
But now and again, I was the one who saw a way round a mechanical problem. And the logistics of our life, truly that was better left to me although I claim no great intellectual ability.

foxie48

Well done Crossstitchfan getting a score of 152 is pretty impressive and if it's given you confidence, that's got to be good for you. I'm still pretty good with number and word type puzzles but I've noticed I'm less good with spatial type tests, definitely not as quick as I used to be but I think that's normal once we get into our 70's.

Thank you! I bet I’m not as good as that now though! The test was done when I was in my 40s! Those were the days!

Whiff

It depends on your definition of intelligence? I know some really intelligent people but they haven't got an ounce of common sense. And forget getting them to do anything practical.

Many of them will have ADHD and dyspraxia.

DS is one of those. He is an academic and the classic absent minded professor.

When I was a child our next door neighbour was Headmaster at St Paul's girls'school. He was very clever. If we asked him questions he would answer in Latin and expect us to translate, and his jokes were often difficult to decipher. However he had never changed a plug or a light bulb. He never learnt to drive, all the driving was done by his wife, including all their holidays abroad - which was very unusual in the 50s. Running the house, organising holidays, paying bills, making sure the children got to school, everything was done by his wife. His contribution was usually making witty remarks about whatever was happening.

Highly intelligent people wouldn't pay an annual fee to join Mensa.

Just like very short people don't need to buy a measuring tape to prove it.

My late OH had a brain like a planet, but .......

I once caught him hand sawing the side off a large rectangular piece of wood and looked quizzically at it as he laboured away down the line he had drawn down the one side - I spotted a similar line on the other side. I said "What are you doing?" - "It is an inch too big so I am taking half an inch off either side." I did point out to him the flaw in his plan ......

This from a man who had degrees and post grad qualifications coming out of his ears!

The 11+ has different pass rates for girls and boys to enable enough boys to pass. Grossly unfair way to operate IMHO as many girls were prevented from going on to grammar school. While IQ tests are pretty flawed they do help differentiate between people with different abilities and have their place. As parent of a v high 'IQ' child who could hardly read aged 10 it was useful in getting SEN support (he's got several degrees now).

Surely it’s Common Sense that matters more?

Jojo1950

Surely it’s Common Sense that matters more?

That will depend on the context. if I am seriously ill I would sooner have a doctor attend me than someone who has common sense but no medical training.

I would prefer power stations to be run by intelligent highly qualified engineers and have food safety standards monitored by trained food scientists.

I agree M0nica. We definitely need people with common sense and it is important but I don't think it matters more than having people with aptitude and training to carry out specific specialised jobs.

You can be highly intelligent and have common sense too!

I think common sense is far more important than intellect.

MOnica my friends haven't got ADHD or dyspraxia.

Glad your son has such a good job he must have worked very hard .

Slightly off the point, Magenta8, I remember at primary school being summoned out of lessons to answer questions - things like looking at coloured shapes on a tray then being asked how many blue stars were there. It happened several times during my time there, but nobody ever explained why, and I don't remember anyone ever asking my parents for permission to do it.
(I was never told if my answers were right or wrong, and with youthful confidence I always assumed I was right!)

theworriedwell

dogsmother

My eldest child joined after seeing an advert and doing a test when he was aged about 7.
No previous knowledge of experience of theses tests at all for any of us. When later it came to
Sitting 11+ I was made aware of how much effort when into coaching children to get through this. I simply refused.

My kids all went to grammar school. They had no coaching or tutoring.

As did ours, and when we were kids both my husband and I passed the 11+ and went to state grammars. I know roughly what our IQs are and they are pretty similar to the only MENSA member I know, and I like to think we have applied more common sense to our lives as well as our innate intelligence than he has. None of us has ever sat a MENSA test. Intelligence is like being good at art or music or sports. It's sad when people don't squeeze every last drop out of their gifts but I suppose that is up to them. Motivation is very important, as well as opportunity.