An interesting slant on the wearing of a burqa.

I belong to interfaith groups, one of which is women only where we get to discuss theses matters only.

This how we get to engage with people, and try to understand each other, not pontificate on a high from a white brit perspective. On the whole is "We wouldn't choose to wear one, but women have the right to choose".

Cariad you say "Basically, I had a good figure and I knew it (had to compensate for the face not being so great....). So it was tight jeans, lowish v necklines. Not "tart" clothes - but certainly ones where my figure was pretty visible.

I guess the only time I'd go back into clothes like that now - at my age - would be if someone else tried to tell me what clothes I couldnt wear. In which case - you better believe I will be back out there in tight jeans, high hemlines, v neck and bit clingy tops deliberately to make my point "

My body /my choice/the norm - shut up"."

so why are you so against Muslim Women that choose to wear a Burka? You made no sense.

I think women should wear what they want to wear - whether it be a burqa or something much more revealing.

I think continual criticism of ethnic dress will actually have the reverse effect. People will naturally feel targeted and less inclined to mingle with people outside their own culture, or to question or adapt any of their practices.

I tend to agree with Franbern that, in my experience of living in London, it is often the younger women who have reverted to wearing the burqa. It is a type of rebellion against the demonisation of their culture. When I see them chatting happily together on the tube, I don't get the impression that they are docile, oppressed individuals.

? "ancpxiiud" ??

I don't understand why a woman herself would stand there and argue the toss if told to take off the headgear/show her face before going in anywhere - but yep...cue for just watched a video of a blazing row by 2 women in them in one of the other European countries (ie one of the ones that has banned the burka so far) and the man was asking perfectly politely and telling them they couldnt come in wearing them. I didn't really understand the blazing row - as I would have told them they werent allowed to wear them, waited for them to take them off and, if that didnt happen, then I'd have just walked away and said nothing further unless I saw they'd changed their minds and taken them off - in which case "They've followed our rules - so let them in".

I don't understand why they would move to one of our Western countries and insist on doing something so against our ways and that means we don't have the full information we need to evaluate them (ie being able to read their faces). I'd also ask (okay that British "ask" - by which we mean "tell") anyone hiding their face in any other way to stop doing so - be it a balaclava, a motorcycle helmet, whatever else or an elegant turn of last century face veil. All would receive the same treatment.

We are a tolerant and inclusive society. Can yiu help me understand by what you mean by “we need to be careful “?
As seen on this thread, the majority are uneasy, or definitely opposed, to the wearing of the burka, I posted earlier that the burka and other forms of traditional dress are much more often worn in my town than thirty years ago. It’s possible my Muslim neighbours of Pakistani heritage were more ancpxiiud about racist comments than they are now,

Happylady2025

The burqa is not part of western culture and should not be allowed in this country. Whilst I am tolerant of other religions to a certain extent we are predominantly a christian country being taken over by Islam

Absolutely agree. We need to be careful although I doubt anything will be done as we are always told what a tolerant and inclusive society we are.

The busiest church here by far is evangelical and back in my home city the church my best friend is going to has obviously turned evangelical in recent years (which will suit her fine - as that's what she is).

I can see the Welsh chapels where I am now are either down to a very sparse congregation or have shut - though I don't know whether they'd be busier (and imagine they would be) if the services were in English (rather than Welsh). As currently a lot of people who might like to go to them can't - because they wouldnt understand the service. Hence that's part of why the evangelical church here is very busy by the look of it.

Them's the choices here - Church of England (aka "Church in Wales"), a couple of poorly-attended chapels and that evangelical church and that's all religious basis covered here. Add in loads of New Age spiritual type things scattered around the area here.

Are we a predominantly Christian country? Our history is Christian, our Courts influenced by Judaea Christian cultures and beliefs.
Church attendance continues to reduce. Evensong a rare event, whereas in the past we often had family service, followed by communion service and Evensong about 6 pm.

Members of our Muslim population is more likely to practice their faith than those who might put Christian on an official form.

The busiest Church in our town is Evangelical. It’s well supported by the African refugee community. Our village Church has moved from traditional to more evangelical. They’re finding growing congregation as a result. The children are active participants, lots of singing and clapping. Few trad hymns for oldies like me.

A couple of our beautiful old Churches have become Indian Restaurants.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

*it must be incredibly difficult for women who are born into that sort of family - but are normal themselves ….. “

Where to start with this?….

Nobody can be bothered any more. An echo chamber.

Although I did enjoy the use of burqa as a verb.

I read that story too Primrose and thought "Not another one...how can they be doing things like that?" ....and yet I am struggling to recall if I've ever seen a man attacked and killed for anything he does!!!!! Nope - it seems to be just women who cop it if they have evil relatives....

It must be incredibly difficult for women who are born into that sort of family - but are normal themselves - to try and hide that fact and escape from the relatives before they get burka'd up/married off forcibly/etc.

Dreadful story in DM today about an 18 year old girl in Holland.

She was killed by her two brothers and her father (who then fled to Syria ) in what they call an honour killing because she refused to wear a veil. They bound and gagged her, drove her miles in the dark and dumped her in marshland.

This is why the burkha should be banned. Women should never be forced to wear veils, flowing gowns or anything else they choose not to.

starnded

Any update on the link between FGM and wearing a loose outer garment please?

I often wear loose outer garments, I always have, especially in summer, what has that to do with anything?

No, I don't fancy wearing a burka either. But, unless there are practical and or legal reasons, I would not support the banning of such garments for women who chose to wear them.
Or support the forced wearing of them.

On the one hand 'covering' allows free rein to the erotic imagination (there being no reality to set you straight). And the prevailing notion that non wearers are morally trashy, encourages some men in unwanted behaviour. All round a very bad deal for females. (And great for the lads!)

A loose outer garment sounds nice….a burqa isn’t nice!

Any update on the link between FGM and wearing a loose outer garment please?

She suggests the wearing of the burqa encourages Muslim men to assume that women from other cultures are sexually available.

Not sure about this.

In the conservative Asian countries including the non-Muslim ones, there is a perception that western men and women are easy and sexually permissive
So, an Afghan man may be acting on this prejudice rather than the wearing of the burqa.

As far as I know, the religion encourages both Muslim men and women to dress modestly and pursue knowledge.
So, if the Taliban in Afghanistan forces the Afghan women to wear burqa, which is an extreme form of modest clothing, and stop girls and young women from attending schools and universities, they are going against the core belief of the religion.

As for the religion oppressing the Muslim women, in my country of origin, a Muslim woman can go to the Syariah court and files for divorce if her husband beats her up, destroys her property or caused her mental cruelty.

If he left her for 3 months in a row without any financial support, that is a legitimate reason for her to start legal divorce proceedings under Syariah law.

Over there, Syariah marriages are recognised as legal marriages for the Muslims. Syariah law only applies to family matters – marriage, divorce and inheritance. Punishment for crimes comes under civil law.

Caleo

The burqa, a garment that hides the entire face, should be be banned while the person is working at any job that interfaces with the public.

That too - as well as the circumstances in which we need/are used to being able to see peoples faces. It is often useful for even "people in the street" just going about our business to be able to see what people are thinking/feeling.

Just at an everyday level and sometimes one makes the odd mistake of not taking a very good look at someone's face and then realising you should have (eg that would have told me a recent health professional - ie podiatrist) was "Little Mrs Determined - to have her way and blow the patient". I learnt my lesson there that I should have looked at her photo more closely before mis-choosing her. The next one though (an acupuncturist this time) had me looking VERY closely at her face on her website and thinking "I'm not making that mistake again - of not taking a VERY good look at her face in advance", "Yep she looks pleasant/a nice person" and I was right..she is. How do you tell that if you can't see their face in the first place? Someone could be deliberately hiding their face - so you can't "read" them...

The burqa, a garment that hides the entire face, should be be banned while the person is working at any job that interfaces with the public.

That's new knowledge for the week for most of us probably then - that there's two spellings on the one hand and one of them is considered offensive and why it is.

Thank you Esmay, for your clarification of the use of the spelling. Will try to remember to use the more acceptable version 'Muslim'.

CariadAgain I'm not Danish but I am a Farmor - father's mother. Son and family in Sweden. I like the way some of their words are quite literal. I'm also a Mormor - mother's mother. Children usually also have a Farfar and a Morfar!

Farmor15

Slightly off topic, but when I was in Uni, a friend started wearing skirts (miniskirts in those days) all the time. This was a time when most of us were wearing jeans. She said it was because her boyfriend wanted her to wear skirts! How many women, even from Western cultures, wear clothes to please their men?

An awful lot, actually, an awful lot. and always had and have.