An interesting slant on the wearing of a burqa.

The sad part is that we even have to discuss it.

It’s when women are forced to wear the burqa or not get to see a doctor or are denied an education as in Afghanistan where previously they were free to choose.

I think people can wear what they feel comfortable in.

Interesting article re this in today's Daily Mail (one of the ones that can be read online) about a woman from the Middle East (now living in Britain). Her father conned her sister and herself into burqas in their homeland at 15 years old - and all heck broke loose when they decided they'd try to take the pretty headscarves off and go back to normal 2 days later and he went off on one bigtime. Her mother got beaten-up by him for supporting her girls. This woman is now living in Britain and arguing strongly that it will be harder for men like this to force their wives and daughters into burqas whilst they are still allowed here.

I agree with her - they should be totally banned - and it will help the women and girls to stand up against bully men that are trying to force the burqas onto them. Incidentally - it might also help us as well - as they get more used to the idea that it's not a "loose/available" woman thing to dress in our way in our country. I gather there are some older women in their own society that try to force them into these as well (though they don't seem to be as big a problem as these men for this) and it will help deal with bully older women as well.

Absolutely not for the State to legislate what a woman can or cannot wear. That’s exactly what has happened in places like Afghanistan.

Once a law is in place it can be applied to suit whoever is in power. Beware.

No way should there ever be legislation on who can where what.

Also wrong to assume that every burqa-wearing woman is being coherced by a man into doing so. Often it is a young woman who is wearing one against the wishes of both her parents (another way of teenage rebellion).
When I was younger I often envied those wearing the head coverings, wonderful on bad hair days, etc.
Full face coverings I am not happy with in public places, would refuse to be treated by a nurse or doctor wearing one of those, need to see peoples faces when they are talking to me. But still would oppose even those to be subject to any legislation.

Poor men who can't control their own sex drives...my heart bleeds for them.

They should be banned in this country, just as they are in some other countries. The article makes it very clear that these women are being controlled and dominated by their fathers/husbands.

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As for teenagers rebelling against parents - I certainly found I got "A Look!" bigtime from my parents when I had a nose piercing one time - and that was well into adulthood that I did that (not as a rebel thing - but because I was an adult and therefore well entitled). They couldn't say a word obviously - because of me being an adult - but boy they could glare for England when they wanted to.

There's always ways - unless one has got very bohemian type parents. But then I guess one could just come in dressed like an arch-conservative with them. "We may be bohemian - but you are wearing REAL animal fur!!!! What are you playing at? Think of the poor animal", eating meat in front of them, etc.

I think people are confusing legislation with personal and social issues.

Pass legislation banning one form of dress for women and the legislation is there to control any form of dress for women. Skirts above ankle length, sleeveless dresses?

It only depends on who is the government of the day.

Controlling how women dress is the gateway to the very misogyny that people are criticising on here.

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Primrose53

They should be banned in this country, just as they are in some other countries. The article makes it very clear that these women are being controlled and dominated by their fathers/husbands.

THat's the experience and POV of one Moslem woman. She does not speak for all.

Other Moslem women in UK have an entirely opposing POV, based on their different experience. Inform yourself;

voiceofbritishmuslimwomen.co.uk/2024/11/23/ban-the-burqa/

Legislation to control what women where s legislation to control what women wear.

Which country it is in is irrelevant. It’s legislation to control what women wear.

I’m willing to listen to any rational argument as to why governments should control what women wear and why this is not misogynistic.

butterandjam

Primrose53

They should be banned in this country, just as they are in some other countries. The article makes it very clear that these women are being controlled and dominated by their fathers/husbands.

THat's the experience and POV of one Moslem woman. She does not speak for all.

Other Moslem women in UK have an entirely opposing POV, based on their different experience. Inform yourself;

voiceofbritishmuslimwomen.co.uk/2024/11/23/ban-the-burqa/

How can we be sure and certain that any Moslem woman saying "Yes it's okay to restrict me" is really speaking with her own voice - or whether she's being pressurised to say "Restrictive garb is okay by me"?

I am struggling with the idea that any woman would genuinely/voluntarily (completely voluntarily - 101% guaranteed) say "Yep...I really really want to wear restrictive clothing". Why would a woman want to be unrecognisable in the street/struggle to manage to eat without getting her food all over her clothes/wonder how her friends were supposed to recognise her/know that deaf people couldnt lipread her, etc unless she'd been pressurised into it (even if only by thinking men might attack her sexually if she dresses normally)?

I still think "We need to stand up for these women - as many of them won't feel free to stand up for themselves - in case of backlash".

After all there were actually women saying they didnt want the right to vote here a hundred odd years back - and I still feel those occasional women saying that must have been pressurised in some way into saying "Yep...that's okay. Don't bother to treat me as a person etc etc. I'm okay with being restricted and being unable to do what I can see men doing". I think it seems to have been better-off women back then actually fighting against our right to vote and I'm guessing they didn't want to get the husband annoyed enough he'd cut off the money stream. I've not heard of any modern day women saying "I don't want my right to vote" and accepting men still get theirs. Of course we want our rights on that - even if we don't bother to use it and go off and have our vote come the elections. I use my vote every time - because I owe it to the Suffragettes to use what they fought for for all of us.

It isn't a religious requirement just a sign that the woman is subservient to a man. So, for me, it has no place in our society and should be banned.

For me it boils down to being able to see the face of the person coming towards me.
A lot is told by the expressions on our faces, friendly , unfriendly?, threatening, etc.
I also wouldn't want to come across a person in a full balaclava coming towards me.
I remember a news article where a jewelry shop was raided by 3 men in burka, they couldn't identify them

Wearing a burqa is not necessarily a sign of male control.

The burqa is convenient as portable privacy tent for whatever reason. Who among us had never wanted an enveloping garment to slip over the head without all the bother of make-up, bras, deciding what to wear, and what colour to wear.
Not every woman likes to flaunt her body in public or be a clothes horse for some man or other cause.

Shel1951

For me it boils down to being able to see the face of the person coming towards me.
A lot is told by the expressions on our faces, friendly , unfriendly?, threatening, etc.
I also wouldn't want to come across a person in a full balaclava coming towards me.
I remember a news article where a jewelry shop was raided by 3 men in burka, they couldn't identify them

Your candid attitude is good . However candour is not always safe. Sometimes it is safer and more peaceable not to reveal one's facial expression.

Franbern

No way should there ever be legislation on who can where what.

Also wrong to assume that every burqa-wearing woman is being coherced by a man into doing so. Often it is a young woman who is wearing one against the wishes of both her parents (another way of teenage rebellion).
When I was younger I often envied those wearing the head coverings, wonderful on bad hair days, etc.
Full face coverings I am not happy with in public places, would refuse to be treated by a nurse or doctor wearing one of those, need to see peoples faces when they are talking to me. But still would oppose even those to be subject to any legislation.

Franbern, there are more subtle ways that a nurse or a doctor can exert power over a patient.

A medic ---not wearing burqa but only a pretty hijab -lies to the patient that she cannot come into your house to help you as she "is allergic to dogs".

Elderly disabled patient forced to rearrange dog's lock up quarters before the medic condescends to treat her.

I often wondered how much it was the wish of the women to wear the 'restrictive' clothing described in this Thread.
Then I read an account of Uigur women speaking to Moslem women, who had come as tourists to the Xinjiang Province from abroad.
The tourists claimed that the Uigur girls said they were jealous of the visitors being allowed to freely wear hijabs.

Caleo

Franbern

No way should there ever be legislation on who can where what.

Also wrong to assume that every burqa-wearing woman is being coherced by a man into doing so. Often it is a young woman who is wearing one against the wishes of both her parents (another way of teenage rebellion).
When I was younger I often envied those wearing the head coverings, wonderful on bad hair days, etc.
Full face coverings I am not happy with in public places, would refuse to be treated by a nurse or doctor wearing one of those, need to see peoples faces when they are talking to me. But still would oppose even those to be subject to any legislation.

Franbern, there are more subtle ways that a nurse or a doctor can exert power over a patient.

A medic ---not wearing burqa but only a pretty hijab -lies to the patient that she cannot come into your house to help you as she "is allergic to dogs".

Elderly disabled patient forced to rearrange dog's lock up quarters before the medic condescends to treat her.

More like elderly disabled patient thinking "I'm not sure I believe there's an allergy there".......and rings up the health person over her and reported "She says she has an allergy to dogs. Does she? I don't know about that......but I obviously need someone different to come and see me. Can you arrange for a colleague of hers to do so instead?" and I would be very surprised if anyone locked up their dog - even if it really was an allergy. I'd certainly refuse pointblank to have things the wrong way round - ie of patient looking out for medics allergy/or maybe personal wishes?

Caleo

Wearing a burqa is not necessarily a sign of male control.

The burqa is convenient as portable privacy tent for whatever reason. Who among us had never wanted an enveloping garment to slip over the head without all the bother of make-up, bras, deciding what to wear, and what colour to wear.
Not every woman likes to flaunt her body in public or be a clothes horse for some man or other cause.

I expect most of us want to be able to move freely/eat freely/breath freely.

I've tried out one of those Afghan woman garments before now and admitted they are even worse - that grille thing across the eyes. But = freedom restrainer/trip hazard/you name it = most uncomfortable to wear and anyone would have to have a death wish to even try to get me into non-Western clothing of any description.

Just because someone obeys the customs of another society within our society doesn't mean that that is what they personally genuinely want - rather than persuaded into thinking that way.

Different customs apply and people might still be living in another way - even though they're now in Britain. A friend of mine some while back now stayed in her marriage - even after she and the children followed her (Iraqi) husband over here for his course of study. One of the first things she said to me was that hers was an arranged marriage - I was gobsmacked...as it was obviously an intelligent/middle-class etc family she was from. She was very envious of us living our way and making our own choices - but all I could do was I was very open to helping her out in any way she decided against her husband and have been known to help her "set him up" as a support to her. That was a fun evening when she persuaded Mr Meanie Husband into taking her family and me out for a meal and told me to deliberately choose the dearest dishes on the menu - I did my best to oblige LOL. At least she dressed in a Western way and they werent restricting her that way.

Sarnia

It isn't a religious requirement just a sign that the woman is subservient to a man. So, for me, it has no place in our society and should be banned.

I agree, it’s just a cultural thing, and a way of controlling women by keeping them muffled up when they’re outside…even on a hot Summer’s day.Whilst the menfolk stroll along beside them in cool t shirts and chinos.
Ban the burqa! Release women living in our country from medieval dress.