An interesting slant on the wearing of a burqa.

Yep....Denmark has shown it's for good sound reasons they are stating this - so they know the woman is who she says she is (and we can see that - because we see their face). The terrorist attacks reason is also a valid one. The checking the womans health in case of pregnancy, etc, is one.

The Danes have made mistakes as a nation - even in my own lifetime (eg that forced and secret sterilisation of that other race nearby under their aegis - ie because they have more children than the Danes and Denmark is a welfare state and so they would be paying for those extra children). But they realised that was a mistake and amounted to "medical rape" and "sex discrimination" and stopped doing that and I don't know what they're doing now or not re that situation.

But overall - the Danes have got it right in many many respects/it's a better society than my own I feel and I was pretty impressed at a lot of what I saw whilst there. This is one of the ways the Danes have got it right - ie their decision re clothing.

A man, who has been brought up in a society that equates a decent, virtuous woman with one that wears a burqa when she leaves her own home, will on moving to a society where women wear what they like, and go where they please unescorted by a male, or their mother or mother-in-law, obviously have to re-think things, or be told that women are not available , or prostitutes because they dress as we do in Europe.

My grandmothers, born around 1880 never when outside without putting on a hat - to their generation of both women and men, a bare-headed woman or girl, for that matter, was a prostitute out looking for customers.

In Denmark, due to the risk of terrorist attacks, it is illegal to wear a mask in public, so a bus driver or train ticket controller can refuse to allow a masked person, including women in burqas to enter the bus or train. Girls sitting examinations at school, or any form of further education, are likewise not permitted to be veiled, so their faces cannot be seen. I imagine that a surgeon or physician has the right to demand to see the face of the woman consulting him, so he knows that the name on the health card and the woman are one and the same.

There have been instances of immigrant women, usually unmarried girls, who suspect they are pregnant, borrowing a married cousin or sister's card when consulting a doctor or midwife, which has made the medical profession rather chary of veiled women.

Maremia - The Uighurs are indeed being oppressed by China and I couldnt really get a straight answer to whether their area is a country (like Tibet obviously is) or no. Back came "It's complicated - on the one hand this/on the other hand that". But either way and the Chinese are absolutely in the wrong and in those circumstances = the Uighurs do have their own area and, if that's their way of dressing = that's their way of dressing and the Chinese should leave them to it and not punish them/try and stop them = as they are entitled to dress that way if they wish in that context. Their particular way of dressing isn't affecting anyone else (from what I recall of it - as I don't think they go in for face covering) - even if they decide to up sticks personally and move to "indisputable China".

Obviously the way the Uighurs are being treated by the Chinese is appalling - in a variety of ways. I need to go off and see if that is actually a "country" and not a part of China - as I'm au fait enough to know they're being treated appallingly and they don't deserve it (whether it is a country or genuinely a region of China) -....but I do know the Chinese are busily calling Tibet a part of China (like heck it is....it's a country and it's the Tibetans who have the right to be in what the Chinese call "an autonomous region"). Yep...the country that we know is still a country and is called Tibet.

But this is a country here - or some would say "It's several countries - England, Scotland, Wales, at the moment/for however long Northern Ireland". Whatever way we regard Britain it's our country (or countries - take your pick) and we have the right to say how things are here...

The arrogance is stunning really.

Leave people alone.

Quite - Freya.

It's not just us having that problem.

We set the rules in our own homes....and so yep....we set the rules in our country. It's not much to ask for for the sake of integrating.

I changed my whole way of dressing in about 1 month flat when I moved to Denmark. I moved there in the British clothes of the era - maxi dresses, long-ish hair etc and took one good look around and about a month later had changed to short hair, clogs, jeans and I had to open my mouth before people realised I wasn't Danish and that's a very similar country to my own - but I'd integrated (the one thing was they never got me out of my bra and I was still wearing one of them - which was a sight more than the woman of the household I was in...whose usual garb was nothing at all - but I learnt to just say nowt and try not to look startled).

The banning of ethnic/religious style clothes in the Xinjiang region in China is part of an oppressive Chinese government campaign to destroy that culture. Children are being removed from families. Adults are being forcibly 'retrained' into becoming 'proper' Chinese citizens.
It is nothing to celebrate. It is not progress. It is an attempt to destroy the Uighur way of life.

There is no room for the burkha in western civilised society.
There is no religious calling for them to wear it, no more than it is to wear a Christian cross.
It is a divisive garment banned by many countries. We should follow suit

Countries with full or partial bans:
Europe: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Denmark, France, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and Norway. Italy and Portugal have also moved to implement such bans.
Asia: China (specifically in the Xinjiang region), Sri Lanka, Tajikistan, and Kyrgyzstan.
Africa: Cameroon, Chad, the Republic of the Congo, and Gabon.
Reasons for bans:
Secularism and integration: Some countries, like France, frame the bans as a way to uphold secularism and promote social integration.
Security: Bans are sometimes implemented as a counter-terrorism measure, as full-face veils can be used to conceal identity or weapons.
Equality: Some proponents argue that face coverings can be a symbol of social exclusion and inequality.
Islamic veiling practices by country - Wikipedia
There are currently 16 states that have banned the burqa (not to be confused with the hijab), including Tunisia, Austria, Denmark, France, Belgium, Tajikistan, ...

Wikipedia

How many countries have banned the burqa? - The Spectator
13 Jun 2025 — How many countries have banned the burqa? At least 24 have placed some restrictions around the wearing of full-face coverings in public, although in ...

Yes I agree with you there too. I’m very uncomfortable with comments along the lines of “ Well I haven’t seen/experienced any kind of coercion/oppression, so it doesn’t happen” when there are many testimonies and indeed criminal cases to show that it does happen.

It a thorny difficult issue that isn’t helped by polarised responses.

I do absolutely understand the issue if the state controlling womens dress lathyrus which is why I have reservations about a ban, however I think people on the opposite side of the debate underestimate the damage that the normalisation of a symbol of women's oppression can do to a society.

Wyllow3

its an interesting point there Iam. What I notice most (leaving aside a tiny number who wear the burka is that most women have been more relaxed about the headscarf especially girl children. Nowhere was it more observable on a big day out in my local park where a large group arrived on a late summer day, it's always multi cultural but this was a large observable group. Many of the younger women had no headscarf neither did the girls.

but there are groups of younger women who have started re-dressing "modest plain dressing" with headscarf,

I talked to my muslim hairdresser about it (she wears western clothes at least at work but does worship daily etc) and its a group who are re-committing to their religion like a christian nun might and dressing accordingly. (headscarves and simple bland colours

I live in a northern town like you, we seem to have slightly different experiences.

Things can go backwards though. This is the worrying thing - as I made the point earlier - womens clothing has gone backwards in Iran, Afghanistan is the worst obviously, Palestinian women used to dress in a normal modern way....but many of them have gone backwards into cover-up clothing (thankfully not covering their faces) and thankfully there doesnt seem to be any pressure on single women at any rate.

Countries can go backwards.

We're lucky - we've even moved on in my lifetime (bearing in mind many of us were prevented from wearing trousers in some places well into our lifetime - eg my first job forbade it).

I don't know just how many women are modernising out of hijab, burka, etc - as it's totally impossible to tell where I live now (ie that small town in West Wales). In all the time I've been here now I've seen precisely one woman walking along in a burqa during that more than 10 years...though I do see a "count on one hand" number of women in headsquares and the "modest" end of normal Western clothing.

.....and yep.....everyone everywear should be prohibited imo from wearing any sort of face covering at all anywhere (be it burka, motorcycle helmet, mask, etc) - though I can see a problem re masks because they were "medically mandated" during Lockdown and a lot of people were wearing them then. But we could certainly forbid absolutely all face coverings of any description - with an exception made for those who choose to wear a mask if They impose a lockdown on us all ever again.

We need to be able to see peoples faces - as how can we see what they are thinking otherwise? or even who they are.

Rosie51

The virtue signalling is off the scale, and of course the 'racist' accusation always rears its ugly head, even when posters are or have family members that are ethnic minority.

Rules are apparently only for some not for all.

I shall not and never would start asking anyone who arrives in a burka to remove there face covering good for you, I fully approve, that's a private group with I assume rules that apply equally to everyone? So full face motorcycle helmets or other full face masks equally acceptable, although I doubt anyone would want to do yoga so attired. Having done yoga I'd be in awe of anyone doing it in a burqa, surely a female only enforced group where they could remove the burqa would be preferable? Will transwomen be welcome at your yoga/art group while Muslim women are present as I think that may be a problem to some Muslim women?

I totally agree👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

The whole thing is fraught with difficulties.

If we had a law against covering the face, just as there were those who refused to wear Covid masks for medical reasons, there will be those who insist on wearing masks “for medical reasons”. Just to prove a point.

My objection to the banning of the burka is that it s a law that controls only women and and what they can wear.

Good laws must be able to be applied without bias or inequality. Given that the application of law (Parliament, courts, policing) is predominately in the hands of men I think to give them control of what women wear and the power to criminalise women who do not obey is an incredibly dangerous step to take.

There is a massive issue here that people don’t seem to be able to grasp.

its an interesting point there Iam. What I notice most (leaving aside a tiny number who wear the burka is that most women have been more relaxed about the headscarf especially girl children. Nowhere was it more observable on a big day out in my local park where a large group arrived on a late summer day, it's always multi cultural but this was a large observable group. Many of the younger women had no headscarf neither did the girls.

but there are groups of younger women who have started re-dressing "modest plain dressing" with headscarf,

I talked to my muslim hairdresser about it (she wears western clothes at least at work but does worship daily etc) and its a group who are re-committing to their religion like a christian nun might and dressing accordingly. (headscarves and simple bland colours

I live in a northern town like you, we seem to have slightly different experiences.

A poster earlier suggested we let time work its magic, as that her experience is it’s mostly new arrivals wearing the burka. It may have been Wyllow?

My experience in our town is that thirty years ago seeing anyone from our Muslim Pakistani heritage community in traditional dress was very unusual. Gradually, heritage is being reclaimed and western dress seen less frequently.

I agree with posters who would prefer women wearing burka not to cover their faces. I’m not sure I’d want legislation as I understand is the case in France. I’m also concerned about the increasing habit where men eg on pro Palestinian or other demonstrations, cover their faces. It isn’t only Asian men, we see aggressive behaviour from white men with faces covered

Maybe it needs legislation ?

The virtue signalling is off the scale

Where please?

The virtue signalling is off the scale, and of course the 'racist' accusation always rears its ugly head, even when posters are or have family members that are ethnic minority.

Rules are apparently only for some not for all.

I shall not and never would start asking anyone who arrives in a burka to remove there face covering good for you, I fully approve, that's a private group with I assume rules that apply equally to everyone? So full face motorcycle helmets or other full face masks equally acceptable, although I doubt anyone would want to do yoga so attired. Having done yoga I'd be in awe of anyone doing it in a burqa, surely a female only enforced group where they could remove the burqa would be preferable? Will transwomen be welcome at your yoga/art group while Muslim women are present as I think that may be a problem to some Muslim women?

I think rules are rules and if there is a no face covering rule it should be obeyed or they should send someone else into the bank on their behalf. Otherwise it is discriminatory. How do you know they are women and not men in disguise ?

I'm about to start as a volunteer for women locally who have been abused. leading a group who want to do some art or some yoga. (yes, for real, it was a decision based on the marriage not the recent attack)

I shall not and never would start asking anyone who arrives in a burka to remove there face covering

Just to please some racist GN's, becuase thats what it is, imo:

We've read posts above on page 1 about what Muslim women have themselves to say and how some have made a choice:

obviously if its done under male pressure its abuse here or abroad I would fight it all the way:

but banning it is counter productive in terms of change, gradual being able to "let it go" is the way forward and

not accepting a minority of womens choices in our supposedly tolerant UK goes against everything I believe in.

I think you are really over reacting to the lady wearing a burka in the bank frankly.

I think you're under reacting to the inequality of treatment. The rules must be the same for everybody surely? Or are you suggesting that burqa wearers become a 'protected caste' that unfortunately was the position of many religious figures in the Catholic and Protestant Churches whose abuse of children was ignored because of their 'religious calling'. You'd not approve of Muslim people of either sex being subjected to more stringent rules than others, so why be in favour of stringent rules being cast aside if someone 'presents as a Muslim woman' in a niqab or burqa? Would you support burqa or niqab wearers not having to show their faces at airport security when everyone else has to? I've seen a nun at the airport told to remove her outer hooded clothing for security purposes.

Road and public safety as regards the ninja mask wearers on the road, of course. Without doubt some are doing it just to intimidate, whatever the ethnic background.

I think you are really over reacting to the lady wearing a burka in the bank frankly.

It was Boris Johnson who once referred to women in burkas as looking like "bank robbers" alongside various other racist comments, I've just googled "robbers who wore burkas in a bank" and found 3 UK incidents in total.

Why repost exactly the same post?
I didn't.

So you think a body completely concealed by a burqa is exactly the same as a body wearing a full face motorcycle helmet but it's fair that the motor cycle helmet must be removed for 'security reasons' yet the burqa does not? If you bothered to read my post correctly you'd have known motor cycle helmets are a separate issue to the mostly white 'ninja warriors' who just love to disrupt any Let Women Speak or other pro women groups while keeping their anonymity. Why should someone in a particular style of clothing be immune from the rules that cover everyone else and their chosen style of clothing?
How do you know every body enclosed in a burqa is a 'woman' who just wants to bank? Could the burqa not be the absolute best disguise for any would be miscreant? No need for the old 'stocking over the face' or 'celebrity mask' disguise. Someone in a full face motorcycle helmet could equally 'just want to bank' but the different treatment suggests that maybe they don't.

Rosie51

I also hadn't seen your post of 23:29:09
Any chance you could give me a break?

Why repost exactly the same post?

I also disagree face coverings should be banned in every situation. I think if women genuinely choose to wear a burqu then they can do so. Obviously this is not the same as the motorcycle ninjas (of whatever ethnic background, since there are white young men doing the same). but if a woman in a bank as wearing a burqu and just coming in to bank some money why not?

Allira

Wyllow3

As for the O/P, it's a load of rubbish (not the poster, the post). As I've just said, male abusers are male abusers, whatever the culture. We've plenty of white home grown ones.

🤔
Not all home-grown, as you call it, (presumably meaning British-born ) people are white, you know.
Some people of ethnic minority can trace their families back centuries.
There are also thousands of white Muslims in Britain too. One I know well is blond (or was) and blue-eyed.

I doubt that the majority of men of any ethnic background or religion are abusers. We just hear about the ones who are.

The discussion is about whether or not the burqa should be banned.

Its true the O/P alludes to the burqa, but the O/P specifically says

"I am concerned for the women who will not be allowed out by their “male controllers”, this will create more misery and leave women open to more potential abuse"
and "easy meat"

so its also very much about abuse and backgrounds as well as the Burqu Alirra

I also hadn't seen your post of 23:29:09
Any chance you could give me a break?