An interesting slant on the wearing of a burqa.

France has even banned headscarves for girls in many schools.

If FGM is a practice not condemned outright by Islam, which to my knowledge it completely is not, why is it Islamophobic to be appalled by the cutting of little girls and censured as an implied bigot to say so?

foxie48

sue421

If I went to one of the countries that demanded I follow their culture, I would comply. In this country the Burkha is not of our culture. Why do we accept this practise? As a country are we too accepting that other cultures repress their women. We need to be more in control of our own culture.

What is "our culture". I suspect my idea of my culture might be very different to what you think it might be.

Are there men in the UK who oppress their wives and partners? I think there are!

Do we adhere to other countries cultures? I don't think so but we adhere to their laws (if we are at all sensible) and we expect those who live in the UK to also accept our laws.

I sincerely doubt that anyone’s idea of our culture in the UK is anything remotely like Afghanistan or very many repressive countries to women that there are all over the world.

GrannyGravy13

foxie48 I don’t think it’s racist as there are Muslims of many different ethnicities.

Could it be Islamaphobic maybe 🤷‍♀️

I won't split hairs, but stereotyping is at the heart of racism IMO and Islamophobia is a type of racism.

sue421

If I went to one of the countries that demanded I follow their culture, I would comply. In this country the Burkha is not of our culture. Why do we accept this practise? As a country are we too accepting that other cultures repress their women. We need to be more in control of our own culture.

What is "our culture". I suspect my idea of my culture might be very different to what you think it might be.

Are there men in the UK who oppress their wives and partners? I think there are!

Do we adhere to other countries cultures? I don't think so but we adhere to their laws (if we are at all sensible) and we expect those who live in the UK to also accept our laws.

If I went to one of the countries that demanded I follow their culture, I would comply. In this country the Burkha is not of our culture. Why do we accept this practise? As a country are we too accepting that other cultures repress their women. We need to be more in control of our own culture.

foxie48 I don’t think it’s racist as there are Muslims of many different ethnicities.

Could it be Islamaphobic maybe 🤷‍♀️

Sorry but I haven't read the whole thread but the wearing of a burqa IME has been evidence of certain cultural norms based on patriachy rather than specifically to do with the Muslim faith. Islam only requires a female to dress modestly, same as most other religions. It's also, again IME, been more frequently associated with a lack of education when enforced by men and a wish to be recognised as religious observance when worn by choice. Anyone who suggests the burqa only in the home, is completely misunderstanding it's purpose. Most religions have been built on patriachy, Christianity included no epistles written by females, although Priscilla might have given Paul a helping hand she's certainly not credited! FMG is nothing to do with religion and it is illegal in the UK and many countries in Africa, Asia etc. It is definitely not racist to say it is a cruel and horrible act of aggression towards female children and I don't think anyone suggests that it is??
Khadija Khan is a Muslim who saw her mother beaten when she refused to wear a hijab. By any standards that is totally wrong but I also think it's wrong to believe that ALL Muslim men think the failure to wear a hijab means a woman is sexually available is also totally wrong. Some might, many others definitely won't, to suggest otherwise is stereotyping and that is IMO is what makes it racist!

Thanks GrannyGravy13

Nannee49

I don't think mutilation of any sort is "ok" GrannyGravy13

Agreed 👍

I don't think mutilation of any sort is "ok" GrannyGravy13

Nannee49

How can anyone confuse actual racism with unacceptable cultural norms?

Mutilating little girls for men's sexual satisfaction is a cultural norm in certain societies. Is it being rascist to say such a vile, disgusting practice is wrong?

Do you think mutilating baby boys at eight days old is ok?

Circumcising is carried out with minimal to no pain relief in Brit Milan (Bris) usually done at home 🤷‍♀️

How can anyone confuse actual racism with unacceptable cultural norms?

Mutilating little girls for men's sexual satisfaction is a cultural norm in certain societies. Is it being rascist to say such a vile, disgusting practice is wrong?

I agree Monica I don’t like him either but I cut anyone some slack for what they said as a teenager.

I think the attacks on Farage for what he said as a school boy, most unfair. I am not supporter of him or his party but in our teenage years what we proclaim as our views are usually just a repeating of the opinions we hear at home.

I came from a staunchly main stream Conservative home and, heaven help me, I have a vague idea that I might have joined the Conservative society in my first term at university.

By the end of the second term having been exposed to other parties, other political philosphies and how they played out in policies, I was an active member of the Liberal party and society.

Someone who is a racist obviously:
- wouldnt marry a foreign wife
- have a not-that-far back foreign predecessor (that one-eighth ie a great-grandparent is still fairly close in line so to say).

Obvious enough that I'm surprised at asking that question...

In what way Cariad ?

That had me doing a quick google re Nigel Farage - and he came back as one-eighth German and married to a German wife. So I'd say his personal circumstances even don't equal a racist.

It all depends on what a person is actually saying. If they are making racist comments, then they are likely to be racist.
Farage claims to not being racist.

If you don’t agree with me you are an extreme right racist. That’s how some seem to be and it is dangerous and very divisive. Far more dangerous than even they seem to realise.

Thinking about another aspect of burkas. Are they always black? And, does this contribute to any, (struggling here to find the right word and will go with 'fear' just now, happy to change it) 'fear' of them?
Black is a negative colour.
(I know the Afghan women wear a shade of blue)

This is indeed getting repetitive. Primrose, if you read back on your own posts, you have discussed far, far more than controlled immigration, which I agree with. No it is not racist to want controlled immigration but you and others have said a great deal else.

Primrose53

M0nica

Wyllow3 I do wish you would stop talking down at us. You have a view but it is just that, and other people on this thread have views that may be different to yours but are just as valid.

The majority of us live in a society where we daily interact with people of other ethnicities, other religions and other cultures and we are also aware of the great range of dress, behaviour and other parameters that exist in every group.

However we also have the right to express concern when a small group within this wider diversity have customs or practices we consider un acceptable in this country. The arguments made supporting the wearing of the burqa, could also be used to support FGM.

Completely agree with this M0nica and I would like to add that I hope Wyllow3 will stop calling posters who disagree with her racists.

It is not racist to want controlled immigration.

Seconded on that one. It's very annoying to be called some pejorative term that does not apply to oneself at all. Though I think "Well that says more about the person doing the namecalling than anything else".

As for controlled immigration - yep....we are a VERY VERY overpopulated country already....and already there are lots who don't seem to realise it's necessary to learn our language/our ways and integrate.

M0nica

Wyllow3 I do wish you would stop talking down at us. You have a view but it is just that, and other people on this thread have views that may be different to yours but are just as valid.

The majority of us live in a society where we daily interact with people of other ethnicities, other religions and other cultures and we are also aware of the great range of dress, behaviour and other parameters that exist in every group.

However we also have the right to express concern when a small group within this wider diversity have customs or practices we consider un acceptable in this country. The arguments made supporting the wearing of the burqa, could also be used to support FGM.

Completely agree with this M0nica and I would like to add that I hope Wyllow3 will stop calling posters who disagree with her racists.

It is not racist to want controlled immigration.

Wyllow3 I do wish you would stop talking down at us. You have a view but it is just that, and other people on this thread have views that may be different to yours but are just as valid.

The majority of us live in a society where we daily interact with people of other ethnicities, other religions and other cultures and we are also aware of the great range of dress, behaviour and other parameters that exist in every group.

However we also have the right to express concern when a small group within this wider diversity have customs or practices we consider un acceptable in this country. The arguments made supporting the wearing of the burqa, could also be used to support FGM.