Well done to the Nurses who stood up for Women’s Rights

Cossy

Galaxy

Lesbians are women.
This is a man.

I think the inference from the nurses was that “Rose” was looking them up and down in a sexual manner, which is exactly what lesbians might do,

Oh goodness.

Are you saying that all lesbians are what you call sex pests? 😲

Cossy

Rosie51
Of course to allow one 'special man' into the female changing room but to keep all the other males out is indirect discrimination against the other men, since they are all exactly the same sex.

Cossy
Oh that’s a bit far.

No it isn’t a bit far.
You either allow all men into female spaces or you allow none.
Allowing one special man would be used as a foothold for all the other men who consider themselves special.

They (note the pronoun) should be canvassing for spaces for themselves, not seeking to take safe spaces away from women.
How strange is their lack of respect for the people they actually pretend to be.

I read an account on FB (granted not the most trustworthy source) of a man who moved into a flat whilst the owner was away. He identified himself as the owner, used the owner’s name and facilities, wore his clothes etc. He argued that he really believed he was the flat owner.
Was he in the right?

Cossy

Surely the answer is to give the small cupboard space to the trans nurse/s.

Not all trans people are obviously trans, and most certainly many pose no threat to women at all.

Straight men, like the ones who pose as trans or go into gay clubs are far more of a danger, they are not trans at all, just sex pests.

Straight men, like the ones who pose as trans or go into gay clubs are far more of a danger, they are not trans at all, just sex pests.

Allegedly it was "common knowledge" among theatre staff in the recovery unit that Rose had stopped taking female hormones and was trying to make their partner pregnant.

So if would appear that Rose had no place in a female changing room. Why was he in there?

Where possible there should be a third space, otherwise the individual's safety could and has been compromised. I agree with Oreo you simply cannot be on the fence about this matter.

As reported earlier this week, it certainly didn't go well for the trans man who was admitted to to a male psychiatric unit and was raped within an hour of their arrival by two of the male patients already there. That person was rendered very vulnerable.

A cupboard would do nicely 😜

ViceVersa

Women have the right to get changed in single sex spaces - that is the law. If you let a biological man - even one who now claims to identify as a woman - into those spaces, then they are no longer single sex.

Surely the answer is to cater for all, splitting existing changing rooms, to allow two large rooms, male and female, and a third much smaller room.

You really can’t be on the fence for any given subject,
And on this subject there’s only women’s views and men’s views and trans women are actually men.
I wouldn’t want to strip off in front of them and neither did this group of nurses.
They had no choice but to put up with it for years, then recently came the ruling that women are only women if they are born as female.This gave the nurses the courage to challenge the colleague known as Rose being in their changing room.
The right people were the winners, women!

Women have the right to get changed in single sex spaces - that is the law. If you let a biological man - even one who now claims to identify as a woman - into those spaces, then they are no longer single sex.

TerriBull

I have a gut feeling, and maybe I'm wrong, that there would be some in the government who would have preferred the ruling to go the other way, they just don't come across as being very on board with it.

I dread to think if that had been the outcome, how all the areas we regard as safe places would be severely compromised.

Of course it may come across that way, Trans are on the list of protected characteristics, by law.

I’ll be honest, everyone has the right to be, and to feel safe, in their places of work and anywhere else.

I mean, EVERYONE.

Some things in this thread make me feel uncomfortable. I’m pleased the nurses have had their say and “won”.

But for me it feels like there are no winners.

Galaxy

Lesbians are women.
This is a man.

I think the inference from the nurses was that “Rose” was looking them up and down in a sexual manner, which is exactly what lesbians might do,

Rosie51

Of course to allow one 'special man' into the female changing room but to keep all the other males out is indirect discrimination against the other men, since they are all exactly the same sex.

Oh that’s a bit far.

I know many of you on here “don’t believe” in trans people, but there are genuinely people out there who firmly believe that they are born into the wrong genders body. I know one, a female to male and I’d defy anyone who didn’t know he wasn’t born male. He, of course, has to use male loos etc and has chosen only to have surgery on his bosons, not “down below”.

I don’t pretend to understand it all, but I do have enough respect for him and his wife to call then man and wife.

Surely the answer is to give the small cupboard space to the trans nurse/s.

Not all trans people are obviously trans, and most certainly many pose no threat to women at all.

Straight men, like the ones who pose as trans or go into gay clubs are far more of a danger, they are not trans at all, just sex pests.

eazybee

^On the face of it I find it hard to summon up a great deal of sympathy for the Victorian sensitivities of these snowflake nurses.^

Magenta, I find it hard to summon up tolerance for any woman(?) who can write such an intolerant post.

I think Magenta8 is confused in her thinking so perhaps we need to be tolerant of her.

eazybee

^On the face of it I find it hard to summon up a great deal of sympathy for the Victorian sensitivities of these snowflake nurses.^

Magenta, I find it hard to summon up tolerance for any woman(?) who can write such an intolerant post.

Me too.

The post is anti-women on a number of levels.

It is intolerant of women (how dare they question the male right to view female bodies at will?).

It is intolerant of lesbians (are they somehow confused in your mind with sex abusers, Magenta?).

It suggests that the male 'Rose's word is worth more than the word of several women - why should the fact that Rose says the way the women were looked at was not creepy mean that this is the case, when several women say they felt that it was.

It is apparently ignorant of the fact that trans men are, in fact, women, so are entitled to compete against other women in sport, unless the transmen have taken male hormones or other disallowed drugs.

Finally, it is offensive to suggest that women who do not want to undress in front of a male colleague are 'snowflakes'.

No wonder why you feel that your post might be unpopular with women.

The only people who can cope with the ordeal of calling out these men, are those women who are incredibly strong and resilient, it is an absolute ordeal to challenge these men and the systems that enable them.

Of course to allow one 'special man' into the female changing room but to keep all the other males out is indirect discrimination against the other men, since they are all exactly the same sex.

Magenta8 On the face of it I find it hard to summon up a great deal of sympathy for the Victorian sensitivities of these snowflake nurses.

Are you a woman, and if so are you quite happy to strip down to your underwear in front of males not related to you? 'Rose" is a male with a male body, not a woman. Why would I care that a lesbian was in the changing room with me, she has every right to be there unlike this man who is trying to get his wife pregnant while saying he's a woman.
Given the backlash women get for not wanting males in their single sex spaces it takes a lot of bravery to speak up. It's only in relatively recent years that anyone has felt empowered to do so. Rosie Duffield was ostracised by the Labour Party for daring to say men can't become women and that sex is immutable.

SueDonim excellent points. I'd forgotten these 'snowflake nurses' only mopped fevered brows or held someone's hand in a kindly way!

On the face of it I find it hard to summon up a great deal of sympathy for the Victorian sensitivities of these snowflake nurses.

Magenta, I find it hard to summon up tolerance for any woman(?) who can write such an intolerant post.

Magenta8 wrote On the face of it I find it hard to summon up a great deal of sympathy for the Victorian sensitivities of these snowflake nurses

Yeah, how silly these women are to be bothered that a man is witnessing their episode of menopausal flooding, or looking at their underwear or at their bodies, that may be scarred by surgery or bearing the evidence of multiple pregnancies, that only a woman can experience.

I expect snowflake nurses just do the pretty side of nursing, like wiping brows and arranging flowers. They'll leave the jobs of dealing with bodily fluids and blood and guts to the more manly nurses.

"Rose strongly denies that she looked at the women in a creepy way" Well as none of us were there except the nurses involved so we cannot make a judgement on that, but why would we disbelieve women who are put in such a situation and feel threatened or merely uncomfortable? Why would we believe the Rose person who shouldn't be there. One of the nurses said he asked her three times whether she was going to get changed. This person is a biological male, and like others who seek to do the same they're being utterly provocative. Why can they never ask for the third space? in a hospital I bet somewhere other than the men's changing area could have been made available. I also read that one of the nurses had suffered some sexual abuse previously, and as such, being in such a situation caused her immense distress. So calling her out as a snowflake shows an amazing lack of empathy under the circumstances.

Anyway I thought calling people snowflakes was deemed pejorative these days.

Why would any woman be disturbed to have a lesbian in a changing room with her? are you suggesting that to be a lesbian would mean they are a danger to their own sex in such a scenario that's a sweeping assumption and without stating the obvious lesbians are women, this person is not a woman.

Lesbians are women.
This is a man.

I am going to make myself very unpopular with when say what I think.

My understanding is that Rose had been using the women's changing room since 2019 and it was only in 2023 that a small group of nurses decided that it was an offence to their dignity as women to have to share a changing room with a trans male.

Rose strongly denies that she looked at the women in a creepy way. Incidentally, do they mind sharing a changing room with lesbians who might look at them while they change?

I find many examples of the way trans men trample on women's rights very offensive, for instance wishing to compete against women in sports.

On the face of it I find it hard to summon up a great deal of sympathy for the Victorian sensitivities of these snowflake nurses.

Rosie51

I don't know how many more women are going to have to go to employment tribunals and the like before the government insist on the law being enacted, but let's also not forget these actions have to be privately funded. There have to be fund raisers to cover the high cost of the legal representation. Of course the employers have public funds available to them, the rest covered by insurance so don't care how protracted the proceedings are.

I think the supporters hope this strategy will eventually wear people down until they just capitulate, and give up.

Unfortunately Flippin2 there are far too many, especially in the NHS it seems, who are only too happy to.

I have wittered on for some years about those of us in the WI who have/had transwomen accepted without a vote of the membership.

The National Federation wrote a grovelling, mealy mouthed apology that transwomen would no longer be accepted in the WI. However they say that they are going to start up Sisterhood groups which accept transwomen. So my next email to BFWI will be asking if the members of the WI have to pay towards this new venture ?

In our WI magazine we often have pictures of suffragettes. How two-faced can the WI be? Our grandmothers and great grandmothers fought for Women’s Rights, they would be horrified at how their sacrifices have been squandered.