Epstein, so sick of it everywhere.

Well said Aveline.

Aveline

Actually, I'm going against the popular opinion here but I reckon Mandelson was a smart appointment to the US. We need a shark to deal with the sharks in high places over there. I bet he found out lots of useful info that would not otherwise be available.

I thought so too.
Takes one to know one, I thought.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

CariadAgain

Allira

Basgetti

Anyone else so disappointed about Bill Gates? I really thought he was one of the good guys. Seems maybe not.

Yes, me too, although my DD has always thought otherwise.

Errrm....Bill Gates a good guy?!! LOL LOL LOL.

I'll just wander off and try and get my head around that thought for a moment....as someone who has long regarded him as evil and isn't in the slightest bit surprised he's been caught out involved in this.

Even before That Jab I seem to recall he was in trouble for medical experiments in Africa without proper consent by the people concerned - unless my memory deceives me...

Yes all that under the guise of philanthropy so that's what he'd like everyone to think what a nice guy.

Not that nice though if you happen to be Melinda Gates. Some very questionable facts, why is he the largest private owner of farmland in the US, he's never been a farmer. Concerns over how future food resources could pan out. Promotes lab grown food over traditional farming allegedly! Land is power! Possibly he's buying up farms here too Jeremy Clarkson has apparently said no to an offer

Allira

Aveline

Actually, I'm going against the popular opinion here but I reckon Mandelson was a smart appointment to the US. We need a shark to deal with the sharks in high places over there. I bet he found out lots of useful info that would not otherwise be available.

I thought so too.
Takes one to know one, I thought.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

I thought that as well, 'set a rat to catch a rat'. But I had completely underestimated what a duplicitous rshl he really is. The revelation that, as a cabinet minister he wa passing sensitive financial information to American market makers at JH Morgan, was for me the ultimate betrayal of your country for personal gain.

What has be come clear is that the only two British people that Epstein considered close friends are the two currently in the news - Mandelson and AMW - and that is signifcant for both of them, because it has shown just what unpleasant people each of them is. As I said, I knew Mandelson was a nasty bit of sh*t, but never that he would sell his country down the river.

I also know AMW was a an arrogant selfish and stupid man with dodgy trade and money connections. But what has become clear in the last few days is that he was a man who was willing to consort with a convicted paedophile and himself have sex with underage girls whom he must have known were co-erced and trafficked and afterwards to lie and lie and lie, and still denies that he ever had anything to do with anything, even when presented with photographic evidence.

I also know AMW was a an arrogant selfish and stupid man with dodgy trade and money connections. But what has become clear in the last few days is that he was a man who was willing to consort with a convicted paedophile and himself have sex with underage girls whom he must have known were co-erced and trafficked and afterwards to lie and lie and lie, and still denies that he ever had anything to do with anything, even when presented with photographic evidence.

Judge, jury and executioner
There is noevidence that he had sex with underaged girls, if you have some, lets see it

Put up ot shut up.

That is a far too aggressive reply given by David.
Not an acceptable GN style response. We can, and do, disagree with each other, but that was out of order.

Virginia Giuffre was 17, Andrew was 41, according to her book, which has now been confirmed as accurate in stating she met him at Maxwell’s house in London, where the infamous photograph was taken. Underage in USA, if not here. I think there will be more uncovered linking him to other young girls, as it seems unlikely that the one time he did was found out, doesn’t it?

Maremia

That is a far too aggressive reply given by David.
Not an acceptable GN style response. We can, and do, disagree with each other, but that was out of order.

It was a very agressive post by Monica

Maremia

That is a far too aggressive reply given by David.
Not an acceptable GN style response. We can, and do, disagree with each other, but that was out of order.

I agree.

David49 why not reply to M0nica in a civilised manner if you think we should not be discussing this, just in case there might be a court case.

There is no need to be so aggressive.

Maremia

That is a far too aggressive reply given by David.
Not an acceptable GN style response. We can, and do, disagree with each other, but that was out of order.

Agreed.

Now trying to remember just how old Virginia Guifre (spelling??) was at the time.....

Sometimes too proof is not such an easy thing to put up - for one reason or another - and not because it's not true.

After watching one world-known guru type dragged into this (he really should have known better) = I went and checked on another world-known guru that I knew years back wasn't what he ought to be (just in a financial sense afaik) to see whether he'd been found out yet. Cue - he hasn't been found out.....but oh yes he's been a "naughty boy" with his finances.

TerriBull

CariadAgain

Allira

Basgetti

Anyone else so disappointed about Bill Gates? I really thought he was one of the good guys. Seems maybe not.

Yes, me too, although my DD has always thought otherwise.

Errrm....Bill Gates a good guy?!! LOL LOL LOL.

I'll just wander off and try and get my head around that thought for a moment....as someone who has long regarded him as evil and isn't in the slightest bit surprised he's been caught out involved in this.

Even before That Jab I seem to recall he was in trouble for medical experiments in Africa without proper consent by the people concerned - unless my memory deceives me...

Yes all that under the guise of philanthropy so that's what he'd like everyone to think what a nice guy.

Not that nice though if you happen to be Melinda Gates. Some very questionable facts, why is he the largest private owner of farmland in the US, he's never been a farmer. Concerns over how future food resources could pan out. Promotes lab grown food over traditional farming allegedly! Land is power! Possibly he's buying up farms here too Jeremy Clarkson has apparently said no to an offer

JD Vance is an owner in some farm land buying scheme as well I believe. Here in the US, land builds wealth and hungry people will do a lot for food.

They are buying up all of our single family homes as well, then renting it back to us at twice the cost, at least.

I am glad this stuff is coming to light worldwide now. Most Americans aren't even aware of what is happening.

The only proof that Andrew met Guiffre is one photograph, he must have been photographed with dozens of women, that is not proof that he broke any law.

You simply cannot condenm anyone in that way or are we going to change the standard for conviction.

Keep up David49. The balance of probabilities.
news.sky.com/story/epstein-files-live-clintons-mandelson-andrew-mountbatten-windsor-trump-investigation-latest-13501106?postid=10988833#liveblog-body

David49

The only proof that Andrew met Guiffre is one photograph, he must have been photographed with dozens of women, that is not proof that he broke any law.

You simply cannot condenm anyone in that way or are we going to change the standard for conviction.

Oh yes you can. QED

One photograph and £12million! Absolutely no admission of guilt, nothing to see here, just have this massive cheque and go away, please. Really? Do you really believe AMW has nothing to hide? David Really?

There is an email from Ghislaine Maxwell to Epstein saying that she, Guiffre; had asked for a photograph of her with Andrew, because she wanted to show it to people, and that nothing improper? untoward ?had happened in her house. Don't know where I saw it to verify it, may have been BBC website.
This seems so much to me that Epstein was setting him up with Guiffre in an attempt to have something to blackmail him with.

It seems to me that Andrew lied when he said he had never met her. That is the material point.

Casdon

It seems to me that Andrew lied when he said he had never met her. That is the material point.

Indeed.

Mollygo

David49

The only proof that Andrew met Guiffre is one photograph, he must have been photographed with dozens of women, that is not proof that he broke any law.

You simply cannot condenm anyone in that way or are we going to change the standard for conviction.

Oh yes you can. QED

It’s not just one woman, one photograph, one occasion though, is it? If you keep up with the news, you will see that there were a number of women, a number of occasions, the Queen paid hush money and Charles has stripped him of all his roles and titles. Do you think there is the remotest possibility that there is no smoke without fire? . I’m sorry, but it does not add up to an innocent man, however hard people try to defend him.

Is it illegal to tell lies?

It proves you are dishonest Allira.

Sorry, I realised that could be read two ways, I don’t mean you, I mean he was dishonest.

Casdon

It proves you are dishonest Allira.

😲
Casdon, how could you 😥

I should have said one is dishonest, shouldn’t I, I’m sorry, you know I didn’t mean you personally.

Casdon

Sorry, I realised that could be read two ways, I don’t mean you, I mean he was dishonest.

Oh, ok, I'll let you off this time.

Now, still confused, did you mean me or Aveline?