From the Palace to Government…

Lack of loyalty seems to me to be the fundamental problem. Mandelson is the author of his own misfortune but also that of other people, turning on the man who gave him his peerage to which he is clinging with grim determination. Starmer turned on Corbyn to the extent of removing him from the Party. The Tories continue to turn on Leader after Leader, even in opposition. The Lib Dems turned on Tim Farron because of his Christian principles, and Farage turns on anyone who might poses a threat to his dominance.
A grim prospect.

I worked as PA to an MP in the HoC many years ago and found most members, of whichever party, to be decent people trying to do their best for their constituents.
Of course, we tend not to hear about them.

25Avalon Wed 04-Feb-26 22:19:34

King Charles isn’t snowy white either. He wanted to be a tampon. There’s a saying all power corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. It does make you lose faith.

Bit harsh, though I'm certainly not condoning his affair (nor Diana's many peccadilloes). He wasn't abusing young girls. He wasn't conducting a multitude of sleazy "encounters" (as far as we know, of course). He married his "bit on the side". He has since lived an apparently blameless life with his lawful wedded. There are no rumours, no embarrassing revelations, no disgraceful photographs in the almost 21 years that they have been married. Not sure how you can describe the rest of his life as "corrupt", which is presumably what you are trying to say. Who knows, of course. An entire harem may appear as if by prestidigitation upon his demise.

25Avalon

King Charles isn’t snowy white either. He wanted to be a tampon. There’s a saying all power corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. It does make you lose faith.

How is this relevant to this discussion? Someone committing adultery with someone of full age is a million miles away from someone who deliberately seeks out vulnerable under age girls and traffics them for sex.

King Charles isn’t snowy white either. He wanted to be a tampon. There’s a saying all power corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. It does make you lose faith.

Politics has always has a strong corrupt element - and a strong group of idealistic men and women who sacrifice much to serve the country.

iIts just like real life. We all know people who are completely honest and those who are crooks - and those who seem one and turn out the other.

Some time ago I discovered that someone I went out with for six or nine months when I was in my early 20s, about 5 years later received a prison sentence for fraud and seems to have continued to walk on the shady side. Does that make me guilty or suspicious by association?

Epstein and Nigel Farage have been seen together some time ago

I remember clearly my introduction into how corrupt politicians can be/ are.
It was the scandal involving Harold Wilson, Lord Boothby and the Kray twins.

thekraytwins.fandom.com/wiki/The_Boothby_Affair.

Then we had the Profumo affair. I do believe there was a lot more involvement with the Russians and the then government than we will ever know.

If Starmer falls because of this scandal, so will RR.

Well, Epstein is an American problem; it is the two dangerously stupid British men caught in his toils who have caused all the problems. There may be others, but it is mainly wealthy Americans.
A lot of MPs were very angry today.
The faces on the front bench said it all.
I thought Rachel Reeves was going to burst into tears again.

Was watching SKY live The Commons debate and have had to switch off…