From the Palace to Government…

Was watching SKY live The Commons debate and have had to switch off…

Well, Epstein is an American problem; it is the two dangerously stupid British men caught in his toils who have caused all the problems. There may be others, but it is mainly wealthy Americans.
A lot of MPs were very angry today.
The faces on the front bench said it all.
I thought Rachel Reeves was going to burst into tears again.

If Starmer falls because of this scandal, so will RR.

I remember clearly my introduction into how corrupt politicians can be/ are.
It was the scandal involving Harold Wilson, Lord Boothby and the Kray twins.

thekraytwins.fandom.com/wiki/The_Boothby_Affair.

Then we had the Profumo affair. I do believe there was a lot more involvement with the Russians and the then government than we will ever know.

Epstein and Nigel Farage have been seen together some time ago

Politics has always has a strong corrupt element - and a strong group of idealistic men and women who sacrifice much to serve the country.

iIts just like real life. We all know people who are completely honest and those who are crooks - and those who seem one and turn out the other.

Some time ago I discovered that someone I went out with for six or nine months when I was in my early 20s, about 5 years later received a prison sentence for fraud and seems to have continued to walk on the shady side. Does that make me guilty or suspicious by association?

King Charles isn’t snowy white either. He wanted to be a tampon. There’s a saying all power corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. It does make you lose faith.

25Avalon

King Charles isn’t snowy white either. He wanted to be a tampon. There’s a saying all power corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. It does make you lose faith.

How is this relevant to this discussion? Someone committing adultery with someone of full age is a million miles away from someone who deliberately seeks out vulnerable under age girls and traffics them for sex.

25Avalon Wed 04-Feb-26 22:19:34

King Charles isn’t snowy white either. He wanted to be a tampon. There’s a saying all power corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. It does make you lose faith.

Bit harsh, though I'm certainly not condoning his affair (nor Diana's many peccadilloes). He wasn't abusing young girls. He wasn't conducting a multitude of sleazy "encounters" (as far as we know, of course). He married his "bit on the side". He has since lived an apparently blameless life with his lawful wedded. There are no rumours, no embarrassing revelations, no disgraceful photographs in the almost 21 years that they have been married. Not sure how you can describe the rest of his life as "corrupt", which is presumably what you are trying to say. Who knows, of course. An entire harem may appear as if by prestidigitation upon his demise.

I worked as PA to an MP in the HoC many years ago and found most members, of whichever party, to be decent people trying to do their best for their constituents.
Of course, we tend not to hear about them.

Lack of loyalty seems to me to be the fundamental problem. Mandelson is the author of his own misfortune but also that of other people, turning on the man who gave him his peerage to which he is clinging with grim determination. Starmer turned on Corbyn to the extent of removing him from the Party. The Tories continue to turn on Leader after Leader, even in opposition. The Lib Dems turned on Tim Farron because of his Christian principles, and Farage turns on anyone who might poses a threat to his dominance.
A grim prospect.

^ turning on the man who gave him his peerage^

Who do you think gave Mandelson his peerage, eazybee?

Not sure when I lost my faith in government.
I think it was probably about 2014 when Cameron was in power.
I realised I neither wanted to vote for the conservatives or Labour ant more.

Personally, I think this is the exact reason, 11 years later, that people are turning to Reform in droves.
Hope.

fancythat you think that reform MPs, councillors and others connected are not corrupt!!😄😄😄

Starmer is in danger now over the Mandelson issue. This is leaving the door open for Reform which would be a disaster for our country.

IMO, starmer is damaged beyond repair. The mismanagement of policies resulting in changes set the scene and the Mandelson-Epstein issues expand it.

I believed his focus on improving safety for women and girls. Like many, I’d forgotten Mandelson had supported Epstein’s subsequent denial, despite admitting and being sentenced for sex offences against 14;year olds. When it inevitably emerged that Starmer was reminded of this and other concerns, yet still appointed Mandelson, I lost confidence in Starmer’s judgement.

This Mandelson nightmare will be the end for Starmer. It is damaging the Labour Party

fancythat

Not sure when I lost my faith in government.
I think it was probably about 2014 when Cameron was in power.
I realised I neither wanted to vote for the conservatives or Labour ant more.

Personally, I think this is the exact reason, 11 years later, that people are turning to Reform in droves.
Hope.

In what way does Reform offer hope?
Surely most of the same but much, much worse?
Have you learned nothing?
Hang on- you don't need to answer that.

Iam64

IMO, starmer is damaged beyond repair. The mismanagement of policies resulting in changes set the scene and the Mandelson-Epstein issues expand it.

I believed his focus on improving safety for women and girls. Like many, I’d forgotten Mandelson had supported Epstein’s subsequent denial, despite admitting and being sentenced for sex offences against 14;year olds. When it inevitably emerged that Starmer was reminded of this and other concerns, yet still appointed Mandelson, I lost confidence in Starmer’s judgement.

This Mandelson nightmare will be the end for Starmer. It is damaging the Labour Party

I agree, PM should have been kicked out of the Labour Party as soon as a link with Epstein was found, many years ago.

PM stayed in Epstein’s house in Manhattan whilst he was in jail for paedophilia for flips sake, what is wrong with Labour and its advisers?

keepingquiet

fancythat

Not sure when I lost my faith in government.
I think it was probably about 2014 when Cameron was in power.
I realised I neither wanted to vote for the conservatives or Labour ant more.

Personally, I think this is the exact reason, 11 years later, that people are turning to Reform in droves.
Hope.

In what way does Reform offer hope?
Surely most of the same but much, much worse?
Have you learned nothing?
Hang on- you don't need to answer that.

Reform are short on policies.

They are saying what the unhappy and dissatisfied electorate wants to hear…

Basgetti

I worked as PA to an MP in the HoC many years ago and found most members, of whichever party, to be decent people trying to do their best for their constituents.
Of course, we tend not to hear about them.

A lone voice here too Basgetti- decent people? Trying to do their best? Whatever next?

We don't hear about them because people just love to read the scandals the media feeds them and they aren't going to stop.

So many angry people with no where to go...

I have never voted for either of the main parties and I cannot see a situation where I ever would.

Mind you I cannot see a situation where I would vote for Reform either.

^Reform are short on policies.
^

Not buying that.

I see it written on GN all the time.

Sent a link 2 or 3 times.
Cant be bothered to do that any more.

Whitewavemark2

fancythat you think that reform MPs, councillors and others connected are not corrupt!!😄😄😄

I do not doubt that.

But I so do not have it in me to vote conserv or Labour[and have hope] any longer.
I dont think I am alone in this by a long way.

When I get to it, I may not vote for them.
It is the nature of a floating voter. We float!