What are older people's lives worth?

I’d be interested to see what the author’s attitude will be when he becomes part of the older generation taking up a larger proportion of state spending, pensions, care etc.
Maybe he’ll turn down any such help or support, or even see himself off to avoid being part of the burden he sees the older generation as being.

Beautifully put. My granddaughters education was so badly affected

LemonJam The article's author puts forward his opinion there is an unfair generational divide and that older/baby boomer generation has "eaten all the pies". That is they are a generation that have enjoyed much greater benefits and rewards, e.g. cheaper travel, cheaper house prices for a lower proportion of salary, easier to access mortgages, free university education etc- than those the same age today. He states the older generation takes up a larger proportion of state spending- pensions, care etc and this will ge worse with an increasing ageing populations

What irritates me every time when this issue arises is that there is an implication that baby boomers are/were selfish/thoughtless/greedy etc for accepting what was on offer as they lived their younger lives. I mean does anyone really think that the present younger generations would have said/be saying "oh no thanks thats too selfish of me to accept" if offered free uni education; more easily acessed mortgages with better proportion to salary etc?

Yes my generation was lucky! And I personally think that I paid into the system over the years to pay for a society we want not to necessarily benefit in my old age. Means testing of many areas with sensible realistic living wage thresholds are needed. But what is not needed is pitting one generation against another

Neither the older nor babies/children/teenagers made the Covid restriction/Lockdown decisions the government did. That is where "accountability" lies. Lockdown restrictions do not particular feature in the article.

The article's author puts forward his opinion there is an unfair generational divide and that older/baby boomer generation has "eaten all the pies". That is they are a generation that have enjoyed much greater benefits and rewards, e.g. cheaper travel, cheaper house prices for a lower proportion of salary, easier to access mortgages, free university education etc- than those the same age today. He states the older generation takes up a larger proportion of state spending- pensions, care etc and this will ge worse with an increasing ageing populations. He addresses Brexit stating that the result was skewered by the older germination voting to leave thereby denying the younger generation of free movement across the EU and other benefits in their interests.

The author ends by saying the older generation/ baby boomers therefore have a debt, if you like, to settle as a result. However I don't think it helps anyone pitting one gernartion against another. Those older people who have accumulated pottery wealth by buying their home no doubt will be passing it onto to their children who will benefit in turn. Not all of course own their property but that has always been the case....

My take on the choice between young and old is you save the young first, it that means sacrificing the old so be it.
I would give my place up in a lifeboat for a child, is there seriously anyone on GN that would take the place of child of young woman ?.

I hope never have to make the choice

watermeadow

I suffered nothing more than frustration that I couldn’t go shopping.
I wasn’t allowed to look after my grandchildren while their parents worked full-time so they were at home alone all day every day. They did no school work, were totally isolated and their mental health was badly affected, probably for life.
They would be completely justified in blaming older people for their mistaken decisions.

They would be justified for blaming their parent's generation for their mistaken choices, but not old people. We were as much victims as they were.

The youngest children suffered the most. Little tots need to see faces and facial expressions.

Young pupils missed out on the vital early days in Primary School. The social interaction as well as an education.

I feel very lucky that we , as a family,were fortunate enough to emerge from Covid intact. I did, however, feel sickened by BJs attitude to the elderly.

We matter too.

I suffered nothing more than frustration that I couldn’t go shopping.
I wasn’t allowed to look after my grandchildren while their parents worked full-time so they were at home alone all day every day. They did no school work, were totally isolated and their mental health was badly affected, probably for life.
They would be completely justified in blaming older people for their mistaken decisions.

The only worth I feel allocated to old people now are if you look after grandchildren for free and the potential inheritance you may leave. Otherwise we are using NHS too much, using government funds for pensions and living in accommodation young people would like to have.

Basgetti

I disagree, OP. Children and young adults were affected dreadfully and the repercussions are still being felt.
Younger, hitherto healthy people died, too.
I find this thread somewhat distasteful. It wasn’t a competition.

Surely the article was what made it a competition? It wasn't just the old people who died, those who were on the cusp of dementia were isolated so the disease progressed rapidly and those that survived are living in a horrible twilight world. Diagnosis was hindered so the drugs which slow things down were not administered.
Every age group suffered in some way and as a society we should be supporting each other regardless of age.

Whatever happened during COVID emanated from people between 30 - 50. They consulted with no one but each other.

Why blame us for what they did? Older people did not ask to be protected, in fact they weren't, we were herded like cattle to the slaughter in hospitals and care homes, isolated from our families to die alone and be buried without family or memory.

But the dead are silent, they cannot protest, the young are living can so they protest.

Emeraldforest

I think we should stop all the divisive stuff now! I want to thank all the people of all ages who kept the shops open and the mail delivered,everyone who looked after us.As a 70+ cleaner I worked through all after the first lockdown when the office reopened for those who struggled to work from home. Many have not gone back,full time at least. Many prefer to work from home,it's an accepted practice now.
I don't think we should ever lockdown again but I think the government and advisors were in new,frightening territory...I think a lot of people have very short memories,the death toll was terrifying!
I wore a face covering for 2 years, and still do if I have a cold. The least I can do.
Time to move on and stop blaming the old people, we couldn't help when we were born.

I do agree with you emerald forest, both about divisive stuff and the terrifying death toll at the time. I also see that no-one would support another lockdown, so I guess the death toll in any future pandemic would be much higher. I think the answer to my question is not much. Perhaps this is just something I have to accept getting older.

I feel it's unfair to blame older people for what the younger endured during Covid.
I'm not blaming older people by the way, just the attitude of quite a few.

Once we start valuing life by age, that will be a dark day indeed.
Remember First They Came by Pastor Martin Niemöller.

The thing is though, that most adults had options during covid to re set their lives, to wfh, to shield if they were old or vulnerable. Children had no such choices, they were deprived of friendships, and deprived of the best education.
There were older people on here being ghastly almost saying that children should be locked away for being germ spreaders and because teenagers' body odour stank and contained germy microbes. I'll never forget the divisive attitude towards our youngest generation.

I feel it's unfair to blame older people for what the younger endured during Covid. Older people did not chose this approach. It was mandated by the government. As in fact were most of the issues raised. It was not a choice so why should there be blame?
The blame aspect is, I believe, also a government tactic to cause intergenerational strife - or Divide and Rule!
The article didn't, I think, mention AI and what that will do to destroy lowskilled jobs which has been the traditional first step for many people in the past.
When I was 20 - 47 years ago, when there were jobs, you had typists and secretaries for example. These jobs are long gone.

I do wish history was well taught in schools. Great shame it's not.

Emeraldforest: "I think we should stop all the divisive stuff now!"

I absolutely agree with you.

Tooyoungtobeagrandma- living proof there is a silver lining in every cloud. Delighted to hear of your positive outcome.

keepingquiet

I think young people suffered far more during Covid and trust me I lost someone and my family had a truly harrowing time.

However, leaving my students who were sent home at a moments notice and told not to come back just weeks before their GCSEs was the worst day of my professional career.

They didn't just miss their education, they lost contact with friends and family, couldn't go to their clubs or after school activities etc.

Very young children didn't see people's faces, only masks. They were not cuddled, given treats or had birthday parties.

The long term effects of this are still being felt in my own grandchildren so no I don't think my life is worth more than theirs. It should not be a lottery. All lives are important and if only the government at the time had realised this!

Well said 👏👏👏👏👏
I must add to your post that thousands of babies didn’t build up an immune system.

I think we should stop all the divisive stuff now! I want to thank all the people of all ages who kept the shops open and the mail delivered,everyone who looked after us.As a 70+ cleaner I worked through all after the first lockdown when the office reopened for those who struggled to work from home. Many have not gone back,full time at least. Many prefer to work from home,it's an accepted practice now.
I don't think we should ever lockdown again but I think the government and advisors were in new,frightening territory...I think a lot of people have very short memories,the death toll was terrifying!
I wore a face covering for 2 years, and still do if I have a cold. The least I can do.
Time to move on and stop blaming the old people, we couldn't help when we were born.

I seem to one of the few that came out of lockdown better than I went in!! During the time I was furloughed, I learned to relax, take time for me, decide that my marriage was damaging my health so got out, enjoyed the hour long walks with my dog with only the noise of birds and insects around me. I learned that work did not define me, that being in a long term abusive marriage was no longer acceptable and that I needed to put myself first. 5 years on I'm retired, divorced and actually "living". I think we all sacrificed something during covid but my now AC and my GC are no the worse for it. I do feel though that this government would like to see all pensioners "disappear" and are doing their best with taxes and lack of care for the elderly to make that happen. For some covid and lockdown was bad for others it was a positive I that it made then re evaluate their lives and change. Any major event affects different people in different ways, young or old, it's how it is. Im just glad to be alive and trying to make the most of whatever time I have left.

I align with those posters who have said that it shouldn't be a competition between generations. The author is stirring the grievance pot unnecessarily. I also do think that there was any need for school closures or socialisation restrictions for the younger generation during Covid as their risks were so low and older people at risk were able to isolate away from them.

Some children/teenagers may have fared OK, as in the case of theworriedwell's GC. But it can't be denied that many babies/children/teenagers did not and were adversely impacted in many ways. Some may have been isolated at home with multiple siblings (not all with individual on line access or mobile phones) parents may have argued more (domestic and child abuse abuse was now hidden and Social workers could not monitor/support in child protection cases during lockdown), parents may not have been supportive and involved in home schooling efforts to the detriment of their Childs education, they may have had financial problems because unable to work as usual, no garden so no outside space to access and cool off from family all cooped up together in flats or small homes etc.

The comparative educational attainment data because of school attendance loss measured after Covid showed attainment decline across all ages- specifically a greater loss for lower socio economic groups. This made it harder for those doing GCSEs and A levels after Covid, eg summer 2022 harder because of playing catch up with course work curriculum for many. A level and GCSE grades in England surged during 2020 and 2021 due to teacher assessed grades. This was followed by a reduction by 2023-2024 with moderated examinations have finally caught up to close to 2019 pre Covid standards. This catch up transition to pre pandemic levels was quicker in England and Northern Ireland. Pandemic learning loss widened the gap in top regards between disadvantaged students and their peers and in some areas is still wider than in 2019. Plus there has been an increase in resits pst pandemic due to lower pass rates, particularly maths and English.

It also can't be ignored that Covid had an adverse effect on MH for many children/ teenagers that has lead to increasingly long waiting lists for CAMH services. Health Visitors were not able to conduct developmental home visit checks as usual, leading to a back log and some early warning signs missed (e.g. failure to thrive, hearing loss) that lead to delays in diagnosis and necessary care. Post natal mothers were more isolated and without usual support bonding and attachment may have been delayed/more difficult/ adversely impacted. Toddlers were not able to attend nursery/toddler/mother and baby groups as usual so did not have the usual social interactions. Early years Teachers reported that 3-4 years were entering school post pandemic less prepared and socialised than pre pandemic.

So as a member of the older generation I thank the younger generation and recognise the adverse impact Covid restrictions had for many.

Early in the pandemic, there was I suspect a worry at the top that the virus would affect all ages- including the skilled adults running and working in all essential services like hospitals. I do not think the early lockdowns were to protect older adults- but for ages so to protect society, and to keep services functional.
In our area, the ambulance service were ordered not to take people over 60 to hospital- only try and save younger adults.

whil
whip

The article is by John Lanchester. From what I have read, he seems somewhat obsessed with supposed intergenerational battles. It is people like him who whil up resentment between generations.

The synopsis of of one of his novels, Look What You Made Me Do, supposedly a satirical comedy:
It is hard to say more without risking spoilers, but if the novel has a state-of-the-nation agenda, it lies in the inequity between the boomers who have helped themselves to everything and the millennials who must live with the consequences.

The Guardian

It wasn’t a competition.
👏👏👏

I have heard so many people, of all ages, retired,working and from other countries too, say that they will never, ever do another lockdown.
It seemed to bring out the worst in some people when given the power to control others.