What are older people's lives worth?

MartavTaurus

Parents are certainly the most influential educators in shaping a child's character, but with the best will in the world, they are not teachers, (unless they have the appropriate qualifications and training).

I'm the last person to say that all instruction should be formal and prescribed, but because our system sets out rigid goals for achievement, any prolonged missed school learning is unwelcome. Then there's also the issue of social skills learned in a school environment.

I left school at 15 with no qualifications. When my first started school at nine the Head said the SENCO would work with them to make sure they caught up. Tests over the first week meant child in top group in class and taken out for gifted and talented.

Social skills covered in home ed groups, beavers/cubs, tennis club etc. of course that wouldn't happen in COVID.

We are constantly told how awful it was and it wasn't ideal but it wasnt horrific and I knew one teenager, not one of mine, who was refusing school due to anxiety. Parents were struggling to deal with it. By the end of lockdowns she had recovered and happily went back to school. Amazing what a few months without the stress and pressure managed.

I'm not saying it was all great but there were positives like pressures taken off kids, pollution down, quiet roads, saving money (I knew a few adults who said not going out meant they paid off some debts or saved for something) it just seems very unbalanced how it is always portrayed.

I think I must be a glass half full person.

Parents are certainly the most influential educators in shaping a child's character, but with the best will in the world, they are not teachers, (unless they have the appropriate qualifications and training).

I'm the last person to say that all instruction should be formal and prescribed, but because our system sets out rigid goals for achievement, any prolonged missed school learning is unwelcome. Then there's also the issue of social skills learned in a school environment.

MartavTaurus

A lot of children were thankfully fine, although things did vary enormously from one family to another.

Academic achievement certainly isn't everything, especially during exceptional circumstances like covid, but I was teaching part-time around that time, and afterwards it was found that younger children were behind on average by at least three months in Reading than pre-Covid. The same was true for Maths, though recovery was far quicker in this area. As Reading and Language are the most important skills taught in KS1, there is no doubt that these young children suffered educationally

My children didn't go to school till year five, all at expected level or exceeding. Sorry but parents should be able to ensure they aren't behind.

A lot of children were thankfully fine, although things did vary enormously from one family to another.

Academic achievement certainly isn't everything, especially during exceptional circumstances like covid, but I was teaching part-time around that time, and afterwards it was found that younger children were behind on average by at least three months in Reading than pre-Covid. The same was true for Maths, though recovery was far quicker in this area. As Reading and Language are the most important skills taught in KS1, there is no doubt that these young children suffered educationally

theworriedwell

I'm so pleased to hear other people's GC were just as happy as mine. My two eldest GC would phone me to warn me they were coming round, Id put chairs on the patio near the french windows with some treats and we sit inside with windows open and chat. Positive memories of lockdown.

Ditto.

Our family had chats, well apart - outside on walks or in our garden. We made little maps for nature scavenger hunts, with treats. They collected our dogs for walks, then bathed dogs in a stock tank.

Happy times working out lovely (separate) activities.

theworriedwell

I'm so pleased to hear other people's GC were just as happy as mine. My two eldest GC would phone me to warn me they were coming round, Id put chairs on the patio near the french windows with some treats and we sit inside with windows open and chat. Positive memories of lockdown.

They were lucky. Our youngest was at home, trying to study at a desk in the attic, for 16 months because my husband is CEV. He didn’t see anyone else during that time, let alone anyone of his own age. He “celebrated” his 18th birthday with his parents and a take away meal.
He didn’t complain, at all, but the repercussions for his mental health were obvious and long lasting. He missed all of the social development that he ought to have experienced at a crucially formative stage in his young life.
At 23, he is only really now getting back on track and he is far from the only young one in his peer group who experienced similar isolation.
I’m glad for you GC but not all young people were as fortunate.

I think those children from not so good homes maybe did suffer, but a lot were fine as said by Nora.
Some of the older ones may have been just as happy to be given predicted exam grades.
I felt sorry for the older people in care homes with no visitors, dying alone.
I know quite a lot were like me, managing ok if in reasonable health. I was in my early seventies then and I found it a quiet peaceful time. I enjoyed a walk to the park for fresh air and exercise, spoke and texted family and friends, swapped recipes and photos on whats app, painted garden furniture etc.
My food shopping was done on line or by my son who would leave it on the doorstep and talk from a distance. The family would visit on a Saturday, stand well back and chat, Oh and everyone learned how to make banana bread.
So there was good and bad for all ages.
Hopefully it won't happen again as things would probably be very different now.

I'm so pleased to hear other people's GC were just as happy as mine. My two eldest GC would phone me to warn me they were coming round, Id put chairs on the patio near the french windows with some treats and we sit inside with windows open and chat. Positive memories of lockdown.

rafichagran

I agree about children of the Gaza thats what sufferering
is. I honestly dont know any children who were affected by covid.

Agreed.

Ours were happy, healthy, safe, and making bread.

theworriedwell

MartavTaurus

The thing is though, that most adults had options during covid to re set their lives, to wfh, to shield if they were old or vulnerable. Children had no such choices, they were deprived of friendships, and deprived of the best education.
There were older people on here being ghastly almost saying that children should be locked away for being germ spreaders and because teenagers' body odour stank and contained germy microbes. I'll never forget the divisive attitude towards our youngest generation.

My teenage GS and his girlfriend are visiting. I just said that people feel they missed so much with schools closed. They both laughed and said everyone they knew loved it. No school, loads of time on their computers.

I think there is a danger if we keep telling the young how awful it was and how they suffered and are suffering they will believe us

Agreed.

Our GC loved staying home, didn't miss the long trip to school.

valdavi

Basgetti

I disagree, OP. Children and young adults were affected dreadfully and the repercussions are still being felt.
Younger, hitherto healthy people died, too.
I find this thread somewhat distasteful. It wasn’t a competition.

All there is to say about it, really,

Agreed.

Unfortunately some people, like this author, do seem to want to stir up strife between generations.

I agree about children of the Gaza thats what sufferering
is. I honestly dont know any children who were affected by covid.

M0nica

I wonder how children in the Gaza, Syria, Palestine and Iran are feeling at the moment. I think they would swop their current circumstances for a COVID lockdown any day.

Or children who lived throughout the wars when they actually had to live away from their parents. Most generations face adversity but in today's world it does seem that people are less resilient. Whilst Covid restrictions were undoubtedly tough for a lot of people, young and old, I think it is how we deal with the fallout that matters most.
I wonder what we would be saying now if we had kept everything open and young children lost their parents or wider family with more deaths from the disease. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing.

I wonder how children in the Gaza, Syria, Palestine and Iran are feeling at the moment. I think they would swop their current circumstances for a COVID lockdown any day.

Maybe some teenagers enjoyed the online freedom. But many of the under 10's missed out and suffered very much. They felt lonely and isolated which caused anxious and depressive feelings.

Basgetti

I disagree, OP. Children and young adults were affected dreadfully and the repercussions are still being felt.
Younger, hitherto healthy people died, too.
I find this thread somewhat distasteful. It wasn’t a competition.

All there is to say about it, really,

MartavTaurus

The thing is though, that most adults had options during covid to re set their lives, to wfh, to shield if they were old or vulnerable. Children had no such choices, they were deprived of friendships, and deprived of the best education.
There were older people on here being ghastly almost saying that children should be locked away for being germ spreaders and because teenagers' body odour stank and contained germy microbes. I'll never forget the divisive attitude towards our youngest generation.

My teenage GS and his girlfriend are visiting. I just said that people feel they missed so much with schools closed. They both laughed and said everyone they knew loved it. No school, loads of time on their computers.

I think there is a danger if we keep telling the young how awful it was and how they suffered and are suffering they will believe us

I agree with keeping quiet, as I know my own GC and many other young people suffered the consequences of the lockdown's, and some still are. At least as oldies we could better understand the reasons behind it. That's not to say older people didn't suffer because we know they did. It's just that with a bit more maturity we could cope a bit better with it.

I too worked during COVID, in an office, coordinating volunteers who helped those self isolating. I will be forever grateful to the doctors, nurses, healthcare workers, key workers of all kinds, and of all ages, who risked, and in some cases, gave their lives for the rest of us. But I will not thank a whole generation on behalf of my own. It is divisive, ageist and wrong.

The older people who died were, in the main, already chronically ill, sometimes with hidden conditions. There's a very strong argument that many of these people would have died in the next couple of years anyway. So we sacrificed so much to give already ill people another couple of years of life. Doesn't seem right to many of us

Please don't bother next time. I'd hate to think you sacrificed doing what you want to give me an extra couple of years of life. I'd rather take my chances than have more lockdowns.

Unfortunately, a significant number of deaths from Covid were in the 45-64 age group anyway, higher than those in the 65-74 age group but slightly lower than over 75s.

We sacrificed so much

Many people sacrificed nothing.

Should I believe that this poster is willing to give up any care that will prolong their life or that of their family members.

John Lanchester and his like seem to forget, that for most people the firsts 60 years of their life is a time when they have very little need of medical services and pay in to the NHS far more than they draw out.

When we are ill in old age, we then use up all the money that was unused in earlier years.

My Grandchildren did not suffer in lockdown
The eldest did his GCSE and done well. The middle one was 7 and was not affected. He went into school for a time, his Mum is a journalist and the teacher told her it was on the list of key workers. My other Grandchild was two and had brothers from her Mothers previous relationships and she had no negative effects. People turning it into a competition are wrong.
I was 62/ 63 when lockdown started.
I remember going into work. It was manic, all people I would have seen face to face, I dealt with over the phone. I remember trying to find a 10 minute gap to eat a sandwich and rush down a tea.

AnotherBirdLady

www.theguardian.com/inequality/2026/mar/08/did-baby-boomers-eat-all-pies-john-lanchester-truth-generation-gap?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

I read this article at the weekend and found it very interesting. However, it was a bit chilling near the end when he says that older people should thank the young for their sacrifices during Covid. No-one disputes that younger people were adversely affected by lockdowns and school closures, but older people actually died, often decades before their time. Are the lives of older people worth so little they should be grateful that younger people didn't kill more of them by spreading the virus around? I sometimes have nightmares thinking about what the next pandemic might be like. Perhaps no-one over 60 will be admitted to hospital, and their bodies will be collected each day, after dying quietly at home, so that younger people can have their needs for "socialisation and education" fulfilled. This may be far-fetched but it is surely the logical conclusion for all this dreadful ageism.

I'm sorry but that's not true. The older people who died were, in the main, already chronically ill, sometimes with hidden conditions. There's a very strong argument that many of these people would have died in the next couple of years anyway. So we sacrificed so much to give already ill people another couple of years of life. Doesn't seem right to many of us...

Mollygo

I’d be interested to see what the author’s attitude will be when he becomes part of the older generation taking up a larger proportion of state spending, pensions, care etc.
Maybe he’ll turn down any such help or support, or even see himself off to avoid being part of the burden he sees the older generation as being.

Yes that would be interesting