David and Tristan Tate and their “supporters”

*Elegran

Iam64
Cossy
Galaxy
I think that's misogyny directed to yourself cossy grin.
I knew what you meant.
🤣🤣🤣 Honestly, I drive myself mad, I’m 67 and used to have the memory of at least two elephants, now I have the bottom of several elephants and the brain of a fish with slight learning difficulties! Grrrrrr
Cossy as an aside, could you start a gang for those of us who identify with
* honestly, I drive myself mad, I’m 67 and used to have the memory of at least two elephants, now I have the bottom of several elephants and the brain of a fish with several learning difficulties *

This sets out precisely how I feel, tho worse as I’m 77 in two weeks so my brain is tired
Wait till you are rapidly approaching 87, like me. You will wonder where you mislaid your brain. Probably put it "somewhere safe, where I can find it again"*

Honestly, I cannot even imagine reaching those fine ages and having any kind of functioning brain!

Iam64

Cossy

Galaxy

I think that's misogyny directed to yourself cossy .
I knew what you meant.

🤣🤣🤣 Honestly, I drive myself mad, I’m 67 and used to have the memory of at least two elephants, now I have the bottom of several elephants and the brain of a fish with slight learning difficulties! Grrrrrr

Cossy as an aside, could you start a gang for those of us who identify with
* honestly, I drive myself mad, I’m 67 and used to have the memory of at least two elephants, now I have the bottom of several elephants and the brain of a fish with several learning difficulties *

This sets out precisely how I feel, tho worse as I’m 77 in two weeks so my brain is tired

Wait till you are rapidly approaching 87, like me. You will wonder where you mislaid your brain. Probably put it "somewhere safe, where I can find it again" .

Iam64

MOnica, spot on about the pornography in the sixties., as well as groping never being acceptable.

Petra - bet we were on reclaim the night demos at the same period as removing top shelf mags

The normalisation of dangerous, abusive sexual practices needs to be challenged

I could not agree more.

Soft porn and sex is perfectly acceptable, however some hard porn showing women being abused in all kinds of ways could be very damaging to young males perceptions of what females “expect” and could influence their feelings on things akin to rape and consent.

Not sure who put *
You're completely wrong about the Tates influence in everyday life btw; the evidence in boys behaviour to female staff and girls in class is widely reported by schools.*

Sorry if I’m being a bit dense, are you saying Tates are or are not influencing our young males?

MOnica, spot on about the pornography in the sixties., as well as groping never being acceptable.

Petra - bet we were on reclaim the night demos at the same period as removing top shelf mags

The normalisation of dangerous, abusive sexual practices needs to be challenged

butterandjam

@keepingquiet When I grew up in the 70s it was perfectly acceptable to be groped, kissed and more by men at work and in the local pubs.

It absolutely was not acceptable to me or any women/men I knew.

Pornography was everywhere- in the school playground, the local shop, on the TV and in the cinemas, not least to say in our homes through newspapers,books and magazines.

That's nonsense. The nearest thing to porn in 1970 UK newspapers was Page 3 tits. UK TV certainly never broadcast an erect penis let alone places to put it. Even today TV can't broadcast the kind of porn images kids can see on their mobile phones.

You're completely wrong about the Tates influence in everyday life btw; the evidence in boys behaviour to female staff and girls in class is widely reported by schools.

I am obviously a decade older than keepinguiet. My heyday was the 1960s and the worst pornography generally available in newsagents in my youth was Playboy. There was worse, if you know where to look for it, but generally people didn't.

Certainly moving or active porn was almost unknown outside seedy clubs in Soho. It would have been the occasional determined sleazeball, who knew where to get 'dirty' Standard 8 films and had a home film projector to use them on. It would have been very difficult to watch them in secret in most homes. comsidring the euipment reuired.

I spent most of my working life in a predominantly male environment and certainly was never 'groped, kissed and more' at work and never experienced much more than occasional groping outside work - and that was certainly not considered 'acceptable'

Iam64

butterandjam, exactly. The top shelf magazines were so much less damaging in comparison with what children can access on a smart phone. Easy access seems to be normalising damaging and dangerous sexual practices

I was very involved in the Top Shelf campaign in the 70s.
We would go into shops selling these magazines and move them to the top shelf.

The only time I’ve been groped I kicked him so hard on the shin ( in my wooden soled platform shoes) he dropped to his knees.

I had a boss who was continuously telling me he had just had sex with me in his head. I laughed at him and told him and that’s where it’s going to stay 😂

butterandjam, exactly. The top shelf magazines were so much less damaging in comparison with what children can access on a smart phone. Easy access seems to be normalising damaging and dangerous sexual practices

Allira

^Porn was always around - there were magazines as well as Page 3.^

They were supposed to be on the 'top shelf' in newsagents, out of the reach of children!

There's a big difference between a photo in a top=shelf magazine , and real people performing every imaginable sexual perversion in films , with sound effects, which any child can watch secretly on their phone in the playground or in their bedroom.

Where do school children get the idea to film their own sex acts on their phone and send it to their friends phones?

Porn was always around - there were magazines as well as Page 3.

They were supposed to be on the 'top shelf' in newsagents, out of the reach of children!

butterandjam

@keepingquiet When I grew up in the 70s it was perfectly acceptable to be groped, kissed and more by men at work and in the local pubs.

It absolutely was not acceptable to me or any women/men I knew.

Pornography was everywhere- in the school playground, the local shop, on the TV and in the cinemas, not least to say in our homes through newspapers,books and magazines.

That's nonsense. The nearest thing to porn in 1970 UK newspapers was Page 3 tits. UK TV certainly never broadcast an erect penis let alone places to put it. Even today TV can't broadcast the kind of porn images kids can see on their mobile phones.

You're completely wrong about the Tates influence in everyday life btw; the evidence in boys behaviour to female staff and girls in class is widely reported by schools.

I agree.

However, it was accepted or hidden that men could grope women and girls in the workplace but I found a way to deal with this when I was ignored when making a complaint.

Porn was always around - there were magazines as well as Page 3.

The Tates are a malign influence on young boys. It is quite frightening.

Cossy

Galaxy

I think that's misogyny directed to yourself cossy .
I knew what you meant.

🤣🤣🤣 Honestly, I drive myself mad, I’m 67 and used to have the memory of at least two elephants, now I have the bottom of several elephants and the brain of a fish with slight learning difficulties! Grrrrrr

Cossy as an aside, could you start a gang for those of us who identify with
* honestly, I drive myself mad, I’m 67 and used to have the memory of at least two elephants, now I have the bottom of several elephants and the brain of a fish with several learning difficulties *

This sets out precisely how I feel, tho worse as I’m 77 in two weeks so my brain is tired

@keepingquiet When I grew up in the 70s it was perfectly acceptable to be groped, kissed and more by men at work and in the local pubs.

It absolutely was not acceptable to me or any women/men I knew.

Pornography was everywhere- in the school playground, the local shop, on the TV and in the cinemas, not least to say in our homes through newspapers,books and magazines.

That's nonsense. The nearest thing to porn in 1970 UK newspapers was Page 3 tits. UK TV certainly never broadcast an erect penis let alone places to put it. Even today TV can't broadcast the kind of porn images kids can see on their mobile phones.

You're completely wrong about the Tates influence in everyday life btw; the evidence in boys behaviour to female staff and girls in class is widely reported by schools.

Galaxy

I think that's misogyny directed to yourself cossy .
I knew what you meant.

🤣🤣🤣 Honestly, I drive myself mad, I’m 67 and used to have the memory of at least two elephants, now I have the bottom of several elephants and the brain of a fish with slight learning difficulties! Grrrrrr

Iam64

Thanks Cossy for highlighting the Tate brothers influence and fortune they’ve been amassing in their toxic, misogynistic business dealings. Terrifying that Trump wanted to pardon them.

This thread links to the one about women and girls in Afghanistan and other threads identifying abuse of women and girls.

keeping quiet, my experience in the seventies was not of it ‘being perfectly acceptable ‘ for men to grope and sexually assault women. It’s never been acceptable despite some men wishing it was. The women’s movement was active in the seventies and the way things are going we need more not less focus on sexual abuse and harassment.

Pornography was not ‘everywhere’ in the seventies. It was top shelf and the kind of ‘extreme’ pornography available on every smart phone had to be sought after. We need research based practice but I bet it will confirm the toxic influence of easily accessed porn on men and of course, their female partners. In what universe is strangulation or sexual practices that cause physical never mind emotional damage, acceptable.

👏👏👏👏👏

I think that's misogyny directed to yourself cossy .
I knew what you meant.

fancythat

Cossy

Fallingstar

Thanks for such an informative post Cossy I believe this is a very important issue which will have far reaching consequences.

I too believe this!

Yes, I believe we CAN do things about this kind of toxic and vile social media!

We can ensure that we’re aware of it, makes others aware, have good parental controls on our devices, lobby the government to hold providers to account, educate our boys to respect girls, bring up our girls to be independent thinking and courageous women, support organisations that try and close the worst sites down. Let’s not let these awful people, and I include Trump and Farage, poison our sons/grandsons minds and preserve ALL women’s rights which were fought and won by us and our predecessors.

Good ideas.

Though the parental control on devices can only last until say, 14? 16?

Parental controls stop at 18.

Elegran

Magenta8
Who is David Tate?
I think that should be Andrew Tate.

Of course it should, I’m so sorry, I have awful “brain fog”, please just put to a down to a “mad old bat” moment!

I am not this womans publicist!, but can I recommend Freya India ( new, very young writer) for a young womans view on everything from social media to porn, she is fascinating on some of these issues.
Iam64 is spot on about porn, the new porn is a very different beast to previous stuff, and accessible to young people in a completely different way. I too wish they would do proper research on it.

Thanks Cossy for highlighting the Tate brothers influence and fortune they’ve been amassing in their toxic, misogynistic business dealings. Terrifying that Trump wanted to pardon them.

This thread links to the one about women and girls in Afghanistan and other threads identifying abuse of women and girls.

keeping quiet, my experience in the seventies was not of it ‘being perfectly acceptable ‘ for men to grope and sexually assault women. It’s never been acceptable despite some men wishing it was. The women’s movement was active in the seventies and the way things are going we need more not less focus on sexual abuse and harassment.

Pornography was not ‘everywhere’ in the seventies. It was top shelf and the kind of ‘extreme’ pornography available on every smart phone had to be sought after. We need research based practice but I bet it will confirm the toxic influence of easily accessed porn on men and of course, their female partners. In what universe is strangulation or sexual practices that cause physical never mind emotional damage, acceptable.

I do think we need to calm these whole Tate influencer things down a little. Yes, they are vile men making a lot of money but are that many young men really that taken in by this?

We mustn't give them attention they don't deserve, though I know most people will just carry on regardless because it is in the news today...

I don't see any much evidence of this behaviour apart from on the on-line world.

I have two grandsons and plenty of nephews and none of them would take any notice of this nonsense. They know what they would get back in return if they did.

What really is 'toxic' masculinity?

When I grew up in the 70s it was perfectly acceptable to be groped, kissed and more by men at work and in the local pubs.

Pornography was everywhere- in the school playground, the local shop, on the TV and in the cinemas, not least to say in our homes through newspapers,books and magazines.

This idea of exploiting women for money or gratification is nothing new- it is just more 'hidden' amongst a few sad, lonely men who have no regard for themselves let alone the women in their lives.

If you are concerned then look to the young women- give them the wherewithall to assert themselves and not see themselves as objects or victims. Especially don't make it easy for them to see men as the enemy, they need empowerment not victimhood.

I am not referring to women living under the yoke of extreme Islamic teachings however... that is a much more complex issue.

Andrew & Tristan Tate are their names. 2 misogynistic and vile individuals who, worryingly, have a large following.

Andrew Tate has been interviewed at length by Piers Morgan but Morgan lets him speak and doesn't really challenge him. They are both fairly polite towards each other rather than being confrontational. Maybe Morgan hopes Tate will hang himself if the rope is long enough but it doesn't really happen.

I think they should challenge him because he gets very angry and aggressive at times and we need to see that, although it's a fine line to walk. If Tate feels he will be really challenged by an interviewer then he probably won't appear at all.

Justin Theroux has a real knack of getting people to open up and maybe Tate feels he might reveal more than he wants to. I would really love to see those two together.

How many women are on mens' sites?
Should we be?
Got me thinking.

The good law project has run its own campaign against womens rights, I am laughing that they would be seen as on the side of women. I think they have caused quite considerable damage to women.
As I keep saying the stats in terms of men killing their female partner have remained fairly static for a long time. My main concern in terms of women and sexual assault would be the influence of porn.