David and Tristan Tate and their “supporters”

I do remember training a young man at work 20 years ago and he flipped out his mobile phone and started looking at porn. OK it was nothing hard core, but I told him he could be in serious trouble if a manager or a woman saw the phone. He was later sacked, but this was for poor attendance and answering back callers on the phone. Never liked the guy as he was aggressive, misogynistic and lazy.

It’s interesting how many of us were warned to avoid the known office groper

Allira One job I had early on, on the first day, two of the clerical staff took me to one side and warned me about one of the men in the department. 'If he comes into the office when you are alone, stand up and keep moving.

However, I gave him his comeuppance. My manger signed off all the expense claims. My job was to check them before submitting them to him. I was looking at one of this sleazeballs expenses one day and some of the figures looked inflated, so I ueried them. My manager took this up with him and he had to re-submit considerably lower figures, and of course make sure they were not inflated therafter because I would be checking them. He never came near me again.

M0nica

Allira

M0nica

FranP

Iam64# "Pornography was not ‘everywhere’ in the seventies."

Working in a govt office in the late 70s, it was normal to see calendars with partly clothed women on the walls.

Partly clothed women are not pornography.

And I'm very surprised they were displayed in Government (or Local Government) offices.

Oh, yes, I saw plenty in Oxfordshire County Council offices in the 1980s. It was the department responsible for maintaining building services in council buildings. Every engineer seemed to have at least half a dozen stuck to the wall of his cubicle. Of course this was in back offices, not the public areas.

Perhaps they hid them in their desk drawer where I worked, M0nica.
Certainly, one of the men in the LG office where I first worked was a predatory sleaze ball but I dealt with him quite efficiently!

Allira

M0nica

FranP

Iam64# "Pornography was not ‘everywhere’ in the seventies."

Working in a govt office in the late 70s, it was normal to see calendars with partly clothed women on the walls.

Partly clothed women are not pornography.

And I'm very surprised they were displayed in Government (or Local Government) offices.

Oh, yes, I saw plenty in Oxfordshire County Council offices in the 1980s. It was the department responsible for maintaining building services in council buildings. Every engineer seemed to have at least half a dozen stuck to the wall of his cubicle. Of course this was in back offices, not the public areas.

FranP

Iam64# "Pornography was not ‘everywhere’ in the seventies."

Working in a govt office in the late 70s, it was normal to see calendars with partly clothed women on the walls.

DH worked in a very small department of 2, and in their shared office colleague Alastair put up a 12 page porn calendar featuring rape fantasy.
Each page showed a half naked battered and distressed women whose clothes had been ripped off

They had female cleaners, female business visitors, our little boys sometimes went to their dad's office and so did I. DH told the guy to take down his vile calendar and he refused.

When Alastair turned over Miss January, he discovered that Miss February ( and all the others) had all learned to speak and had all been raped by Alastair. In speech bubbles they were all exchanging explicit comments on Alastair; his pathetic penis size, erectile dysfunction, sexual tastes, disgusting sores etc.

DH recognised the handwriting...

I value your posts so much Iam64 but crikey sometimes they are depressing reading!

Galaxy 🙈

One high security mental health facility in the late seventies had those calendars in the (male) nurses office. The paedophile inmates had images of children cut from mothercare catalogues on the panels round their beds. The nurses were very cross when two young feminist students suggested the wall decorations needed removing

FranP

Iam64# "Pornography was not ‘everywhere’ in the seventies."

Working in a govt office in the late 70s, it was normal to see calendars with partly clothed women on the walls.

Iam 64 was responding to a poster who claimed pornography was everywhere including UK newspapers and TV in the 1970's ( she knew because she'd seen it).

Very clearly, she had confused nudity with pornography.

Where as now we have made such amazing progress that an Mp had to resign for watching porn in the H of C, it almost makes me nostalgic for the calender days.

M0nica

FranP

Iam64# "Pornography was not ‘everywhere’ in the seventies."

Working in a govt office in the late 70s, it was normal to see calendars with partly clothed women on the walls.

Partly clothed women are not pornography.

And I'm very surprised they were displayed in Government (or Local Government) offices.

FranP

Iam64# "Pornography was not ‘everywhere’ in the seventies."

Working in a govt office in the late 70s, it was normal to see calendars with partly clothed women on the walls.

Partly clothed women are not pornography.

Iam64

The fact those demeaning calendars aren’t adorning office walls these days is thanks to we seventies feminists who spoke out
As Allira says, there’s no comparison with them and the vile pornography sitting in smart phones

I worked in Government offices and never saw calendars of that type anywhere! They were seen in garages when I took my car to be serviced and I remember my Mum's friend's son inviting me to climb up to his tree house which was adorned with such calendars. We were ten at the time 😲
I've never climbed down a tree so fast in my life.

The fact those demeaning calendars aren’t adorning office walls these days is thanks to we seventies feminists who spoke out
As Allira says, there’s no comparison with them and the vile pornography sitting in smart phones

FranP

Iam64# "Pornography was not ‘everywhere’ in the seventies."

Working in a govt office in the late 70s, it was normal to see calendars with partly clothed women on the walls.

Those calendars are not the type of vile pornography that is now available on the internet.

Iam64# "Pornography was not ‘everywhere’ in the seventies."

Working in a govt office in the late 70s, it was normal to see calendars with partly clothed women on the walls.

Excellent thought provoking arguments here.

Andrew Tate in discussion with Germaine Greer : mincemeat.

BlessedArt

undines

I detest the term 'toxic masculinity' - as the mother of four fine sons it makes me angry. Men are demonised, they are not taught how to be 'men', in fact they are practically taught it is wrong to be a man and to do or feel any of the things that come naturally to men - such as fancying women! A young man I know was falsely accused of rape, seized from his family home in front of young niece and nephew, detained in great discomfort for a day, then released with no charge because the girl admitted she just made it up because she was afraid of upsetting someone else and wanted an excuse. There was no come-back on the girl, and this is because if there were to be a 'come back' then women would be afraid to come forward! An incident like this traumatises a young man and can ruin his life because people inevitably say 'There's no smoke without fire.' Algorithms discriminate against the white, heterosexual male. There is no fairness in this, many young men feel stymied and powerless and prefer to stay in front of their computers rather than risk the 'dating scene.' It is in this state of unfairness that psychopaths like the Tates find interest and support. Rather than blame the Tates and go on and on about toxic masculinity and violence against women, we should look at the whole picture. We should be working towards less violence EVERYWHERE, fairness EVERYWHERE, and an understanding, maybe, about what makes men different (are they allowed to be different??) and how their needs and natures can be catered for, rather than demonised.

I am a mother of a son. It doesn’t give me the moral right to minimize this problem. I also raised mine to be a decent human. Too many others didn’t, hence this problem. “Fancying” women does not equal harassment and mistreatment to normal people, so whomever is confused about that is part of the problem. It’s simple: keep your hands to yourself, consent matters at all times, and women aren’t objects or pieces of meat. Women are not property and men aren’t entitled to say and do whatever they want they want to them. Normal men understand this. Normal men “fancy” women and manage to never confuse any of the above.

The amount of women and girls actually raped Vs the amount of men falsely accused is astronomical. No one should shy away from acknowledging and addressing the growing threat of young men and boys being influenced into toxic, predatory treatment of women and girls no matter what.

I am also the mother of a daughters and granddaughters. They do not exist merely for the pleasure of males and they don’t need to coddle or “care for” whatever your concept of a male’s nature is. The fact remains that the vast majority of violence committed in this world is committed by men. If you think the world needs to cow-tow to that, you will stay angry because most young women today won’t allow the clocks to be turned back so far. Good for them!

I’m not apologising for quoting these two posts.
Thank you Blessed Art for your post.
I don’t share information about women and girls/boys horrifically abused by men but they’re ever present in discussions like this.
I stress again, I loved my husband, I love male friends, grandsons, nephews, sons in law, former colleagues - the list is extensive, That doesn’t mean I feel the need to suggest men are a special case in needing to be taught how to be men, they learn in their families, schools work environments. What matters is what sense they make of it all.

@Undines

Men are demonised, they are not taught how to be 'men', in fact they are practically taught it is wrong to be a man and to do or feel any of the things that come naturally to men

That is exactly the false message Tate is selling to his followers.

You're doing his dirty work for him.

StoneofDestiny

So scary

I thought you might have been hoodwinked by AI. Surely Farage and these headlines were not true. Shockingly and very worryingly you are right and the photo you posted is the genuine article.
Starmer cops it for poor judgement with people but Farage has just trumped (sorry, couldn't resist) with the likes of Trump and the Tate brothers.

And Cossy too 👍

Iam64 good post

BlessedArt, yes, I feel angry too.
I am a mother of a son. It doesn’t give me the moral right to minimize this problem. I also raised mine to be a decent human. Too many others didn’t, hence this problem.
Well said.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Perhaps Andrew Lownie will write incisively about the Tate brothers? He pulls no punches and immune to threats of any kind.

Andrew Tate is certainly an interesting subject, Nature or Nurture, father an American chess champion, mother
brought them to live in tough Luton, Kickboxing to
infamy via mysterious means.
He seems to have bypassed regular Rites of Passage,
eschewed the rhythms and responsibilities of marriage
but close to his brother.
Where are his mother and sister in all this?

My Liverpool mate Al who knows about these things,
opined that
“He wouldn’t last two weeks in Liverpool” not because
of the deprivation, gang warfare, implied violence, social
problems of some easily identified areas, but because
Liverpudlians take no prisoners verbally, sorting him
out with personality based putdowns and not standing
listening to his garbled rhetoric.
She reckoned they would send him home in tears.
No one holds a mirror up to him it seems.

I thought this was an interesting take on a mercurial man
which I thought I would share.

He must be fundamentally unhappy and unfulfilled,
certainly not happy and contented, referring to women as bitches
and boasting of his jet plane standing by.

He has said, on his conversion to Islam, that he wanted
a religion that “suited his personality.”
This was so preposterous I choked with laughter,
or “can you hear yourself, Andrew?”

I cannot comment on the sub generational impact and influence as I only know well supported young men. I
think someone upstream said, disenchanted and despairing will heed him whereas critical thinking, supported young men will not.
He lacks humour and good intent.

Candace Owens interviewing said he was polite.
She didn’t however notice how manipulative this was.

He is a malignant Rasputin for our times.

BlessedArt

I agree! Well said. I have two sons, two daughters, they’ve all been raised exactly the same, all taught to respect each other, all taught basic skills to live independently and taught about sexual consent. Among many other things, they’ve made a ton of mistakes in their lives, but none of them blame anyone but themselves and my sons are not sexual predators.