Four more horses die in the name of ‘sport’

Me too. Except the only contact I had with horses was watching the racing on tv with my dad. When my parents died it seemed like a way of connecting back to the past especially as we joined a racing club based in Birmingham so used to travel back there for meetings ( Stirchley working men’s club).

Time passing and no further breeding would soon take care of these surplus creatures.
Doesn't solve the problem of the initial ban. What fate do you envisage for all those horses already in existence? Have you already a viable plan in mind?

Many of the horses involved in eventing are from the track, especially those at the lower levels. Would those who want racing banned have eventing banned too? What about show jumping? What about dressage? What about showing and carriage driving? What about children's gymkhana ponies or the horses that are hacked out for pleasure? I've always done a bit of everything on my horses as I've liked them to have variety. My little TB did a nice dressage test, pulled my arms out going cross country but would do the filthiest stop if he didn't like the look of a fence (hence broken ribs and two fractured vertebra (fortunately stable) and was a very careful show jumper up to a metre then he said, "no, too big for me". He'd hack out in the heaviest traffic but was a complete idiot over a bit of flappy paper in a hedge or a car parked in the "wrong" place. He was an absolute gentleman to handle unless it was very windy. Anyone who has ridden will know that horses and ponies have a very strong opinion about what they will and won't do and frankly the relationship with their rider is absolutely key and I don't believe you ever train a horse successfully using cruelty as they will let you down at the worst possible moment if they don't trust you.

GrannyGravy13

BlueBelle the use of a whip on race horses is restricted nowadays.

No more than 6 strikes for encouragement according to the racing rules.

I am against cruelty to any animals trainers and owners are governed by strict rules and regulations.

Should we whip our children or employees 6 times to “encourage” them?
Dogs? Cats?

The rich owners can afford to have them live out ordinary horse lives in a field.

Simple.

I suppose the 'animal lovers' that freed the farmed mink were being kind to them. They didn't think beyond fluffy kindness. Shame they've driven our native water vole almost to extinction. I wonder if those 'liberators' ever have a moment of guilt, a pang of regret that they didn't research or consider the consequences of their actions.

It would be good to hear some considered plans for what would happen to all the horses in existence today. As others have said, thoroughbreds would not cope with being put out to pasture. They wouldn't become a predator to any native species, but neither would they thrive into a happy old age.

‘How would you suggest they could be accommodated?’

MaizieD I don’t think anyone is imagining horse racing would stop over night. It would have to be phased out over a number of years until it was gone and the race horses, if not being bred would automatically decline. It doesn’t mean no one could own a horse, or have stables or children have riding lessons etc. just the awful racing …..and…. after seeing that woman whip her horse in dressage training, that should go as well.
Horses should be wild, or domesticated and living in stables, or on farms, or in private ownership but not being USED and ABUSED

"Should we whip our children or employees 6 times to “encourage” them?"

Fortunately we share a language with which we can explain why they need to hurry up, we don't have that with a horse and they don't know they are heading for the finishing line or that there's just one fence left. Having been smacked hard with a racing whip, I'm either extremely thick skinned or it's a pretty poor device for inflicting pain as it is cushioned with air. It does make a noise though and horses will be trained to react to the noise.
My daughter evented at quite a high level and would always carry a whip, eg carried in the left hand it guards the horse from drifting left, a tap down the shoulder said to the horse, "Ok mate we need to concentrate on this or stay straight" and a tap on the backside said "nearly home, mate, but we need to pick up speed if we are going to make the time" If it's used to inflict punishment then I'm more than happy to ban the rider from competing, end of!

I am very conflicted over this.

I do not ride, and never have. I tried it once as a child and the horse bit me! I can take a hint!

But 2 of my DDs had great joy from their riding and it was a stable influence () during their teenage years. We live near the Welsh mountains and they went on happy rides in beautiful scenery. And I had no doubt at all that the horses/ponies were being well looked after - they were certainly much loved by my DDs.

But I am less sanguine about horse racing as, at base, it is about making money from asking a horse to run faster than it normally would in the wild or than is comfortable for it. Do we have the right to ask them to do this for our entertainment or income? - I am not so sure.

As I said upthread, I have always felt conflicted about our relationship with the animal kingdom and the basic assumption that it is there for us to control. For us to decide which are to be valued and how their lives should be.

I love the wildlife round here - the squirrels and the birds bob around my garden doing their thing unmolested, except by their predators.

Survival of the fittest is the rule by which our world is predicated. Does that give us the right to dictate how other species should live, or indeed whether they should live or die? I don't know ....

Wyllow3

The rich owners can afford to have them live out ordinary horse lives in a field.

Simple.

Again is is too much to ask that people would do some factual research into the problems before expressing opinions based on fantasy.

Several posters have explained that racing thoroughbreds are unsuited to a life out at pasture, that they would be uncomfortable, vulnerable to all kinds of ailments and have short miserable lives.

Though I suppose as long as the sight of them in pasture is available to allow the ignorant to happily sigh over them that won’t really matter.

This is the danger of an uniformed “crusade’ that is carried out to satisfy human need to feel virtuous.

As for rich owners keeping horses in their fields, the majority are corporate ownerships or owned by people from abroad. So would you ship them out to their owners? Very few owners actually have any land on which to pasture a horse. Where will these mythical fields come from?

And how would you “phase out” racing? Smaller and smaller race meetings? It would not take lng for meetings and horses to no longer be financially viable and they would then stop abruptly, with the consequent problems of several thousand unwanted horses.

All these are real issues that will not be solved by dreamy visions. But reality rarely gives the crusader that feel-good factor.

The reality they can’t or won’t face is that ban racing will mean that horses will be slaughtered. That may be a choice that is ultimately to the good, but it needs to be faced by those calling for an end to racing.

More likely is that having achieved a ban they will simply walk away and leave others to deal with a mess that they find just too upsetting.

It would have to be phased out over a number of years until it was gone and the race horses, if not being bred would automatically decline.
Phased out over a number of years? That might work for cars, but horses are a bit like pensioners.

The ones in work are paying for the ones who are not working so if there were no young horses coming along to pay for the horses in existence, there would be insufficient money to keep the ones in existence.
Actually it’s like pensioners in another way. Some are now expected to work until they drop, with the advancing pensionable age.

Sometimes in jobs which they are no longer physically able to do to the standard, they expect of themselves or others expect of them.
What’s the same for us and horses, is that no rich people are going to come along and pay for us to be put out to pasture in comfort.

Many horses don't settle down to retirement, they enjoy the rhythm of regular work, a bit like some of us. Thinking about it the horses that have picked up injuries with me have hurt themselves in the field, having a hooley in the wind or because the flies are bad. I'm fortunate to have plenty of turnout but all of my horses have liked to be stabled during the day in the summer so they are out of the heat and flies and in at night in the winter. They queued at the gate when they wanted to come in and it meant they could have their hooves picked out and checked for stones, checked for signs of injury and generally just cared for.
I do wonder if people who have no experience of horses understand just how tough it is for a horse living in the wild. There are no geldings, so stallions have to constantly fight to keep their mares, the mares are made pregnant again as soon as they come into season and foals are very vulnerable to predators. Wild horses are lucky to live past 15 whereas domesticated horses often live 10 or more years past that and even longer. My little TB lived to 28 and was still sound and ridden for gentle hacks until he was 26. He'd have been furious to have been retired before that, I did my last competitive dressage competition on him when he was 23. We won the veteran class and was second in the open class. The judge got out of her car to ask me how old he was and to say how great he looked! He was a little pocket rocket who nearly killed me in the first month I owned him but became a proper schoolmaster as an older horse. Sorry to go on but I adored him.

When I had my pony she wouldn’t be stabled; hated it. But the thoroughbreds for some reason were happy to stand in their stables all day and night, and it wasn’t because they’d come from racing yards and were brought up in that way. If racing ended Newmarket, Middleham and Lambourn would become ghost towns. It would be like the mines closing. I had my pony for @ 16 years during which time my marriage broke down and I had to take on an extra job to pay for her. She tied me down more than any other pet and even when I wasn’t with her I was worried about accidents, colic, attacks ( at that time a lot of horses were being attacked in their fields…it wasn’t publicised for fear of copy cat attacks and is probably still happening now). I remember my doctor telling me I needed to stop the weekly poo picking because of the arthritis in my hands, but I couldn’t; it had to be done. I can’t think of another animal that needs so much looking after or one that is so strong and yet fragile at the same time. They say you can learn about horses from the day you’re born to the day you die and still not know everything about them. They are endlessly fascinating and complicated.That’s probably why trainers don’t seem to retire, they just carry on until old age.

My daughters rode, I rode, now my seven year old granddaughter is riding. The stables is great, some instructors and owner ex mounted police division.

Riding is a magical experience. Much depends on the relationship between pony, horse and rider. They’ll work with you and are capable of letting you know if they’d rather you were on the deck.

Police and military horses - I’m sure some argue we don’t need them. I disagree. Police horses, like the dogs, do an important job and also break down barriers between public and police. They’re so well cared for and I can honestly say, loved by riders and handlers

Military horses are a joy to watch in procession. They’re a rich part of our heritage
So, yes I’m conflicted about brutal races like the National. Four horses dead at Cheltenham this week isn’t ok. But the relationship between horses and people is a significant one. I have a friend who uses horses in therapeutic work with children and adults. Monty Roberts, the horse whisperer works with veterans using horses

Yes, the dreaded poo picking!! We have the last of several Exmoor ponies which we have owned over the years. Merlin is now 23 and he both drives and rides and has given us the most enormous pleasure over the years. Now he is, like us, elderly and retired but the general care of him has never altered, he still needs the farrier, he needs his teeth checked, he still needs hay, often in summer as well as winter, he also needs feeding, summer and winter. Because he's old, that has to be monitored, no carrots or apples allowed after a brush with laminitis! His stable is cleaned every day, his water checked, his bowls kept clean both water and food. His small field has to be poo picked regularly,checked for ragwort, hedge and fences checked for safety reasons and so it goes on. Keeping one small native, hardy Exmoor is a lot of work, a big commitment and expense particularly when they're retired. Goodness only knows what a thoroughbred, sensitive ex racehorse would entail. You can't just put them out to grass and leave it at that, it would be an awful thing to do!

Oh, Jaberwok, I adore Exmoors. I learned to ride on an Exmoor and my daughter's first pony was a moorbred Exmoor. Those two had a bond like no other. We are lucky enough to have two sites near us with Exmoor ponies doing conservation grazing. They're wonderful ponies.

Lovely stories, of all sorts of horses and ponies. Great memories. Did nobody have donkeys?
Don't think the issue is about any of these equine.
Think, but could be wrong, that the discussion was prompted by the death of racehorses.
If so, then considerations about 'fading out' would not include some of the types you have, or fondly remember.

Equines

Maremia, the stables where I helped out had a rescue donkey. His name was Maverick, he stared in the village nativity as the donkey.
He was like a big dog, followed us girls every where, if we were mending fences, so was Maverick.

Well I don’t care what excuses you can make for keeping on racing poor horses, but I know it’s not right and you can call me ignorant as many times as you want, and you are right I m not a horse person, I don’t know anything about them so yes you can call me ignorant but I know it’s not right to exploit any animal to do what is beyond normal for them and I ll never change my mind on that
Sending horses to their deaths is the same as any other animal abuse.

Sending horses to their deaths is the same as any other animal abuse I agree BlueBelle and if you're ignorant, I'm proud to be ignorant too.

Race horse are equine athletes, trained and selected carefully to do the races they do. Some have speed but not stamina, some have stamina but less speed, some are careful jumpers, some are not, some race better on hard ground whereas some like it soft or even a bit holding. No one sends a racehorse out to do something that is not normal, it's normal for them and trainers carefully select the races and race courses that will suit that particular horse, hence you will get withdrawals if conditions don't suit a particular horse. No one sends horses out to die either.

I love the breeding side of it and can spend ages looking at pedigrees. Especially as they go back to the three founding Arab stallions. And I love the line in National Velvet that says ‘the glorious ancestress Pocahontas whose blood ran down like time into her flying children’. Still one of my favourite books; never regarded it as just a children’s book. Covers so many contemporary topics, press intrusion and women in sport.

But you would be sending several thousands of horses to their deaths. The existing racehorses would have to be killed. Has nothing experienced horse owners said about the work and money needed to keep them sunk in?

Do you still cling to the fantasy that from somewhere will come fields and money to keep them?

That is wilful ignorance and nothing to be proud of.

Now you may believe that the cruelty of a large number of deaths in the short term will eliminate worse cruelty in the long term. It’s a valid argument.

But don’t set your aim of banning racing up as cruelty free and you as someone who would never harm an animal. That will be the consequence of a racing ban.
A choice you will make even if you refuse to acknowledge it.

You have no realistic plan for all these horses you pretend to care so much about.

I know it’s not right and you can call me ignorant as many times as you want, and you are right I m not a horse person, I don’t know anything about them so yes you can call me ignorant

Not ignorant, but well-meaning and uninformed about what is entailed in caring for horses.

Those who own, know and care for horses on the thread are speaking with the knowledge of what it entails. Pedigree racehorses do need even more care than a hardy pony and it would be cruel to just turn them out into a field in the cold, wet, heat and leave them to live out their days without exercise.