The Six Wives of Henry VIII by Alison Weir

I tend to get obsessed with certain periods of history and my latest obsession has been Katherine of Aragon. There’s a series on Ch4 catchup; The Spanish Queen and I wanted to know which bits were accurate. I scour all the historical podcasts so I can learn about whoever I’m interested in. I started listening to In Our Time the other night but annoyingly fell asleep. And when that happens with In Our Time sometimes it won’t play again. Yes I was surprised about the timescale eg between her first marriage and her second. The problem with her dowry etc. However being me once I’ve learned everything my goldfish brain forgets all of it straight away. I often find things on utube as well. Going to check up on the In Our Time one. They’re very informative but quite dry compared to some podcasts. Thanks for reminding me…

youtu.be/-QWoBvexhoY?si=k-I6VVFLK9wWct5h
This is one of the utube ones ( if the link works). There are several more.

Thank you for that link it's very interesting.

Yes I was surprised about the timescale eg between her first marriage and her second.

I think Henry was only about ten when his brother died. He married Katherine at 17, nearly 18. Katherine was older, 23 I believe.

It’s a bit dry isn’t it. There are more on that page that look more interesting. I can listen to In Our Time again thankfully. I usually listen to them at night when I’m trying to get to sleep. She was quite an amazing woman and people forget that she and Henry were happily married for a long time, or that she fought battles…and won. I wonder if there’s a Rest is History about her?

There is but it’s subscribers only. I think they know when I’m interested in something and it ends up subscribers only.

She was a true princess of Royal Spanish blood and was treated appallingly by Henry and his affair partner, Nan Bullen...

And she probably lost the son she could have given him by defeating the Scots in battle.

I’m be theory about Henry is that he suffered from Kell Syndrome. People who have it are affected in various ways, including psychotic episodes (which he had) and the inability to have more than one child with any partner. The sex doesn’t matter - sufferers can produce male or female babies, but after the first one maternal antibodies attack foetuses in utero. Catherine had Mary, so subsequent babies died or were miscarried. It was the same with Anne - after Elizabeth she couldn’t carry to term. Jane had Edward. She died soon afterwards, but would not have produced any more children if Henry did have Kell blood.

It’s an interesting theory, but is still unproven beyond doubt. There is evidence that at least one of Henry’s ancestors had the syndrome, which is hereditary, however, so it is a plausible hypothesis, and explains why he went from a fit, rational young man to an obese monster in older age - a situation that is often thought to be the result of a fall from a horse.

That should read ‘One theory’ 🙄

I love this history too . I look at these young girls who married Henry and can't imagine how they felt . Poor things . Frightening time to be alive and in the court .

Doodledog

I’m be theory about Henry is that he suffered from Kell Syndrome. People who have it are affected in various ways, including psychotic episodes (which he had) and the inability to have more than one child with any partner. The sex doesn’t matter - sufferers can produce male or female babies, but after the first one maternal antibodies attack foetuses in utero. Catherine had Mary, so subsequent babies died or were miscarried. It was the same with Anne - after Elizabeth she couldn’t carry to term. Jane had Edward. She died soon afterwards, but would not have produced any more children if Henry did have Kell blood.

It’s an interesting theory, but is still unproven beyond doubt. There is evidence that at least one of Henry’s ancestors had the syndrome, which is hereditary, however, so it is a plausible hypothesis, and explains why he went from a fit, rational young man to an obese monster in older age - a situation that is often thought to be the result of a fall from a horse.

That is very interesting, I haven't heard of that condition. I'm another history buff and in the book, 'The other Boleyn girl', Mary Boleyn is said to have two children with Henry, a boy and a girl.

I love Tudor history. King Henry VIII makes for fascinating reading. I suppose Anne Boleyn is the name that springs to mind when we think of his 6 wives with Catherine Howard and Catherine Parr lesser known.
I was delighted when the Tudor Heart was bought by the British Museum recently. Jewellery from this time is so rare and this beautiful pendant, given by Henry to Katherine of Aragon, is now on public display. It's on my 'to see' list.

I believe Katherine and Henry had a son who only live for a few weeks, this was before they had Mary. Had he lived, Henry may not have broken with Rome and we would have stayed a Catholic country. I do love a bit of a 'what if' historical rabbit hole!

keepcalmandcavachon

I believe Katherine and Henry had a son who only live for a few weeks, this was before they had Mary. Had he lived, Henry may not have broken with Rome and we would have stayed a Catholic country. I do love a bit of a 'what if' historical rabbit hole!

Same here keepcalmandcavachon. I wish tests were carried out on the bones of 2 children found under a flight of stairs in the Tower of London. They are widely rumoured to be the missing Princes in the Tower but there is no proof. Our late Queen refused any DNA testing on these bones. I wonder why? Do any GN's know the reason behind her decision?

Although Katherine of Aragon was my favourite, I find Anne Boelyn (aka Nan Bullen, by the public ,who hated her) the most fascinating. She played the long game, manipulated Henry and was pivotal in England breaking with Rome.
She was horribly cruel to Katherine and Princess Mary (jealous and insecure because they had Royal blood, I think)
Her downfall brought lot of people a lot of joy!

I've read it, and it's absolutely gob-smacking!

Alison wrote it brilliantly, and Katherine was treated appallingly at times.

RIP, great lady.

Mary was not the first baby of Henry and Katherine, just the first (only) one that lived into adulthood.

When Prince Arthur died, the then King - Henry IV, was more concerned at NOT having the return the very large marriage portion that had come with Katherine. Her treatment then was totally down to him - he was always very concerned about the English finances and did built them up to a very large figure.
When Henry came to the throne he delighted in spending that legacy as quickly as possible it seemed. He married Katherine, (which sorted out any problem about returning that dowry), and then had the lavish 'Field of the Cloth of Gold.
Henry had sons, - Henry Fitzroy, Edward and the one by the other Boleyn sister. Anne Boleyn miscarried a boy - who knows how things might have been different for her if she had carried that baby to full term!!!!!

But miscarriages and still births and deaths of infants and young children was very common back then. Only a minority made it to adulthood.

“The Queen lies in the Cathedral
Under the Arms of Spain…..”

Well worth a visit to Peterborough cathedral to see her tomb with the Spanish flag above it

Alison Weir is a wonderful writer, both fiction and non fiction. I always look forward to her books.
I like Sharon Penman too, though she covers a much earlier period. She writes fiction, though not straying too far from known fact.

But miscarriages and still births and deaths of infants and young children was very common back then. Only a minority made it to adulthood.
Yes, it was more common but there is still one common denominator to consider and that was Henry himself and whether the fault was a genetic one.

Anne of Cleves is an interesting ex- wife. She survived and outlived Henry, who began by detesting her on sight, but after very wisely agreeing to become his beloved sister they developed a friendly relationship,( she also was maintained a friendship with the ill-fated Catherine Howard) and in later years Henry would dine with her at her palace in Richmond, where she kept a goodly table and was supposed to wear a different dress every day.She owned several properties, lived in some style, and attended Mary I's coronation, riding in a chariot with Princess Elizabeth, later Elizabeth 1. She died in 1557 aged 42 and was probably the most content of all the wives, having achieved a life of some comfort and stability out of the spotlight of court life after a terrifying start.

Anne of Cleves is an interesting ex- wife

Yes. Not as high profile as some of the others but she played her part and survived.

This is quite an amusing take on Anne and Henry and probably nearer the truth than some:
historyofwomen.substack.com/p/was-anne-of-cleves-really-too-ugly

Allira

^But miscarriages and still births and deaths of infants and young children was very common back then. Only a minority made it to adulthood.^
Yes, it was more common but there is still one common denominator to consider and that was Henry himself and whether the fault was a genetic one.

Yes. As I understand it (ie at a very surface level) Kell Syndrome means that after the first child subsequent babies may live for a while but will be very weak.

I have Rhesus Negative blood, and my husband's is positive, so after my first baby I had to be given antibodies to prevent any others being what used to be known as 'blue babies'. That is entirely different from Kell Syndrome, but it sounds like it follows a similar pattern. Obviously they didn't have the understanding or the medication back then, so they fell back on tradition and blamed the women .