tackling shoplifters according to Kemi Badenoch

Labradora

Being 6ft would be no help to her if the shoplifter had a knife and was prepared to use it.
I usually stand up for myself quite robustly.Like most people I don't like bullying and 50 years ago when I was first in London I remember intervening in a Tube carriage when a group of youngsters were being bullied by a small gang of something-or-others and after some forceful words from me they backed off.
No way would I do that now and not because I am 70-odd but because particularly if the antagonist is young , I would think they would be more likely to carry a knife.
Sorry I 've got nothing against the vast law abiding and pleasant majority of youngsters. Many of them have to carry a knife for self-defence as I understand it.

Your last sentence is utterly misleading.

If a “youngster” (or indeed anyone) is carrying a knife, it’s never for self defence, it’s to use!

Our last three AC are in their 20’s, they don’t carry knives, neither did they in their teens, nor did their peers.

Being 6ft would be no help to her if the shoplifter had a knife and was prepared to use it.
I usually stand up for myself quite robustly.Like most people I don't like bullying and 50 years ago when I was first in London I remember intervening in a Tube carriage when a group of youngsters were being bullied by a small gang of something-or-others and after some forceful words from me they backed off.
No way would I do that now and not because I am 70-odd but because particularly if the antagonist is young , I would think they would be more likely to carry a knife.
Sorry I 've got nothing against the vast law abiding and pleasant majority of youngsters. Many of them have to carry a knife for self-defence as I understand it.

Yesterday my DH (mid 70’s) attempted to stop one of these ‘just help yourself’ shoppers, who had grabbed many large bags of expensive nuts, and some clothes. DH missed, and alerted the two security guys standing at the exit. They completely ignored the incident, and he ran off into the street. What are they even for if they aren’t going to act. The thief was a scrawny little scroat, certainly not stealing food for a family or anything😡

Maremia, your point is the one made by store managers to the employee who physically wrestled the shop lifter

When we lived near Glasgow I often spotted shoplifters and pick pockets at work inside quality shops in Sauchiehall St , I just discreetly informed security and they were all picked up.

So, using your best Kung Fu moves you manage to apprehend the thief. The Police arrive. He/she shows them some bruises, and say you assaulted them.
What happens next?

Not only car boots, some of it is sold on sites such as Vinted.

And they drive off from petrol forecourts without paying for their fuel.

I don’t know what the answer is.

I was in a local Herons store, a youngish chap in front of me paid for one or two items. The checkout chap then said ‘And what about the chocolate sticking out of your pocket?’

The chap just shrugged, and left.

I couldn’t believe his cheek, but the assistant just looked resigned.

Chestnut

I'm not sure how it could work but my solution would be for shop entry to be allowed only by swiping a valid bank card at the door. Brilliant eh?

Once in the shop everyone would be identifiable so not able to walk out with stolen items.

I'm afraid it really has come to that because we have such an epidemic of shoplifting.

That might work in some stores but not in all.
If the thief was wearing something like a poachers coat tgey will fill all the inside pockets but still put a basket through the tills. Job done.
If we had more police to patrol car boot sales we might dent the Buisness a little. A huge amount of these stolen goods are sold through car boot markets.

Where I live (town) is off a very busy A road. Car will pull up outside shop with boot open and criminals will literally fill the boot and then get back onto the A road. It’s worse in summer

These aren’t people anyone would want to tackle

It happens all over. I suspect shops will just reduce their opening hours

Unfortunately, shoplifters now often work in gangs and are extremely aggressive. They do not lift the occasional item and make their escape, they are likely to clear the shelves and leave a terrified shopkeeper or assistant terrified.

I remember many years ago seeing an old lady slipping a packet of butter and one of cheese into her pockets and just knew that she'd be up before the Magistrate and put on probation yet again. It was more of a compulsion and she needed help.

Unlike today's shoplifters who are more like steaming gangs.

I'm not sure what the minimum age for a plastic card is, but are people seriously suggesting that 15 year olds shouldn't be able to buy a bar of chocolate in a shop? There are still some people who hate plastic cards and won't use them and they won't buy online either. Whenever topics such as voter ID are mentioned, there are always a few people who complain because they don't hold any form of ID.

Don’t suppose her kids would thank her if mum was stabbed.

This is exactly why we need far more (or even some) “bobbies” on the beat!

Also retailers should get together and hire some proper licensed security guards and share the cost. In the long run it’ll be cheaper than the losses and instal very visible CCTV - it’s really not rocket science

I think in the not too distant future, all purchases will be by plastic card or phone, so Chestnut's idea would work. I like it!

Chestnut

I'm not sure how it could work but my solution would be for shop entry to be allowed only by swiping a valid bank card at the door. Brilliant eh?

Once in the shop everyone would be identifiable so not able to walk out with stolen items.

I'm afraid it really has come to that because we have such an epidemic of shoplifting.

It would probably work for the majority of customers, but there are many people who don't have bank cards and you can just imagine how much they'd complain.

Chestnut

I'm not sure how it could work but my solution would be for shop entry to be allowed only by swiping a valid bank card at the door. Brilliant eh?

Once in the shop everyone would be identifiable so not able to walk out with stolen items.

I'm afraid it really has come to that because we have such an epidemic of shoplifting.

Completely right.
But
Although the big supermarkets could enforce this, could the corner shop?
I can see a time when high value items (wines, spirits and joints of meat etc.) will be for online orders only.

We did.. My husband tried with another chap to stop this guy getting out of our local M&S, while I dashed to a member of staff. He managed to get away but he was held in the entrance area for a long shot on store CTV.
We gave a statement to the manager who asked if we would be willing to give one to the police. That didn't happen and we don't know if the shoplifter was caught.

What an interesting if draconian idea Chestnut

I'm not sure how it could work but my solution would be for shop entry to be allowed only by swiping a valid bank card at the door. Brilliant eh?

Once in the shop everyone would be identifiable so not able to walk out with stolen items.

I'm afraid it really has come to that because we have such an epidemic of shoplifting.

Allira

twaddle

Allira

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I’d be too scared.
Sorry Kemi,

She's 6' apparently.
And quite formidable!
I'm not. 😀

She's actually about 5ft4, so won't be tackling many people (maybe some primary school children). It's empty words.

So why are there reports online of her being 6'?
🤔

London Evening Standard reported:
'James McAlpine, 22, who stands at 7ft 2in, was pictured towering over his heroine the 5ft 4in leader Kemi Badenoch in Manchester.'
Frankly, you can see she's pretty short just by looking at her, so the 6ft claim must have spread around like Chinese whispers. It's clearly not the case.

twaddle

Allira

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I’d be too scared.
Sorry Kemi,

She's 6' apparently.
And quite formidable!
I'm not. 😀

She's actually about 5ft4, so won't be tackling many people (maybe some primary school children). It's empty words.

So why are there reports online of her being 6'?
🤔

A chap on the Jeremy Vine radio show on Friday was talking about how he witnessed a shoplifter running out of a Morrison’s store in Cornwall. He ran after the thief, got him in a headlock and matched him back into the store saying to the manager “Here he is. What do you want me to do with him?”
He was stunned when the manager told him he had to let the thief go as they weren’t allowed to hold him.

The story didn’t end there though as it appeared the good samaritan was on holiday staying in a nearby caravan park in Bude, and came across the thief who was staying at the same holiday park !

What I don’t understand is what has happened to the rights citizens have (or maybe had) where members of the public could ‘arrest’ someone they had witnessed committing a crime.
Is that not now the case?

Well, officers 'on the beat' wouldn't prevent the more aggressive shoplifter, or groups of them, but it would, I believe, go a long way to create that kind of environment that we once were used to; where it was quite normal to see police on the streets on a daily basis. In sufficient numbers, I think they would act as a deterrent.

But therein lies the rub - we are hardly likely to ever get those numbers of officers again.

Since 2010 there have been disastrous cuts to the police service, not to mention the cuts to the budgets due to Austerity.

The force warned that they would not be able to manage and that crime would escalate ultimately... and here we are.

Badenoch has no right to expect the public to tackle these shoplifters however strong or tall they might be. Even if shoplifters are not carrying a knife - and no one would know who was or wasn't - they could become violent. People have been killed by a single blow. I think she has a nerve to even suggest it!

Exactly FGT
I was in our local pet store when a shoplifter picked up stack of very expensive frozen dog bones
A member of staff wrestled with him. Staff angry, shouting why should all these customers work to pay and you swan in, rob and sell down the pub
The thief eventually ran off shouting he’d be back
Staff member subsequently let go as he’d broken the management rule not to tackle shop lifters