Are White British Men somehow “disadvantaged”

I am afraid that is quite a complex area, and one currently with many grey areas, there is another case linked to internships bubbling under at the moment, linked to race discrimination.
So one grey area is when does for example a training programme or an internship become part of the recruitment process, say if those who have attended are then guaranteed an interview.

Full compliant with Equality Act and fully compliant with the Employment Act.

If not the previous Conservative Government would have taken action. Claire Coutino was a member of the last Conservative Government and she raised no concerns about it whilst in office. She served as Parliamentary Secretary for Disabled People at one stage. She only first raised her concerns about this long running internship scheme this month, 2026. I suppose it grabs headlines when your party is out of government and trailing in the polls....

Oh and good luck with pursuing justice through tribunals-look at the waiting lists

This NAO scheme has been running for 11 years, it first launched in 2015.

Giving someone a step ladder to stand on so they can reach the good on the shelf that their taller friend can reach without help because they’re taller is not patronising. The extra help I got with travel expenses that I received so I could get to my work place which my able bodied colleagues didn’t need wasn’t patronising.

Galaxy

It doesn't really matter what you believe lemonjam, it doesn't matter what I think for that matter. It matters whether they are complying with the equality act. These cases tend to be interesting test cases. Organisations frequently get it wrong, look at the mess they made in terms of compliance with equality act compliance in terms of single sex spaces. Lots of organisations are frequently terribly advised on equality act issues.

I absolutely agree it doesn't matter what I think Galaxy. Your concern was that this role goes beyond the Equality Act positive action to recruitment of a worker. The legal definition of a worker is set out- but feel free to disregard if you prefer.

The pro rata £sum the internship role attracts does not constitute payment for work unless the work meets the legal definition of work in UK law, whcih this role does not.

The pro rata £sum for the short internship is provided no doubt to enable the socio economically group that form the applicants live in London or Newcastle to carry out the internship role. They may not live in either of those 2 locations and may not have family living there either- ie for all the reasons Tuliptree sets out.

It doesn't really matter what you believe lemonjam, it doesn't matter what I think for that matter. It matters whether they are complying with the equality act. These cases tend to be interesting test cases. Organisations frequently get it wrong, look at the mess they made in terms of compliance with equality act compliance in terms of single sex spaces. Lots of organisations are frequently terribly advised on equality act issues.

I think all British born and bred people, which covers many people with ancestral roots in other countries, including myself, as I am half Irish, should all be on an equal basis for everything and not need special treatment for any reason.

I am on one of the many women who after WW2 benefitted from the Butler Education Act and help with university fees. Many of us came from homes that could not see the point og educating a daughter we went in to professions dominated by men.

I spent most of my career in jobs where I was the only woman above secretarial level we kept going and pushing without special selection, mentors or anything else and many of us had careers our mothers envied. My best friend at school became a judge, others are medical consultants, engineers.

I think much of the discrmination and special treatment we give people now is patronising and must diminish their self confidence. We keep saying to minority groups that they cannot succeed without help from someone from the supposed superior group holding their hand.

Let everyone compete from the same starting line and if anyone one thinks that someone metaphorically tripped them up, let them take those concerned to an ACAS Tribunal.

Galaxy

The concern is that potentially if internship is paid and also who is viewed as a 'worker', it would move from positive action to discrimination with regard to recruitment.

For that particular concern the better expert to advise is an employment expert in terms of employment law.

The NAO website is explicitly calling for university students in their summer vacation before their final year at University. Internship roles by definition are temporary, fixed period work experience The NAO website is explicit the internship role does not result in employment, ie a job. The only route to the graduate scheme thereafter is by competitive application- again explicit in the internship FAQs on the website.

I do not agree that this has moved from positive action that is compliant with the Equality Act to discrimination with regards to recruitment as a worker

In the UK "intern" is not a legal status. For an intern to be legally classified as a worker (and entitled to paid holidays, minimum wage, workers rights etc) depends entirely on the working relationship rather than what the role is called.

An intern can be considered a worker if:
1) They have set working hours and regular attendance expectations
2) They are assigned specific tasks, duties and deadlines by the employer
3) They contribute actual work that benefits the organisation
4) They perform personally rather than job shadowing.

This internship role is defiantly not a worker role. Sounds like the NAO has taken the necessary steps to ensure that the internship role does not meet the legal definition of a worker in order to avoid such concerns.

Galaxy

The concern is that potentially if internship is paid and also who is viewed as a 'worker', it would move from positive action to discrimination with regard to recruitment.

I can understand that argument unfortunately. The thing is that work experience/ internships are often easy to find for well connected middle class professionals to find through their own professional networks and friendship groups and they wouldn’t have to be paid as such parents could afford to keep the child, pay travel and living expenses etc.However, surely there’s way to take this out of employment status -say like a daily allowance that the Lords get and they’re not employed .

The concern is that potentially if internship is paid and also who is viewed as a 'worker', it would move from positive action to discrimination with regard to recruitment.

Galaxy

My concerns about the internship are that an expert on the equality act is raising concerns.

I have no idea who that expert is or what concerns were raised.

My questions were more along the lines, after you read the concerns of this expert in regards to this NAO internship- did that result in you having any concerns and if so what are they?

My concerns about the internship are that an expert on the equality act is raising concerns.

I view most identity politics as damaging to the groups they hope to help. For example the issues around stop and search in my view tend to drown out why black boys are may be over represented in knife crime, the situation that Wyllow is describing about people from various communities feeling more comfortable when approaching police from 'their' community, well it might be worth thinking about the end result of that division.

Galaxy

And again the equality act advisor is raising concerns about the internership issue.
As I have said I loathe identity politics from all sides. Divisive, frequently damaging to the groups it purports to help.

I dont see an problems with this NAO summer internship and WBM who meet the criteria can apply.

What equality act concerns if any Galaxy do you have with the information about the summer 12 week internship on the NAO website? I cant see that it's divisive or damaging in any way to the groups it purports to help?

I should say so, we should be at the top of society

And again the equality act advisor is raising concerns about the internership issue.
As I have said I loathe identity politics from all sides. Divisive, frequently damaging to the groups it purports to help.

Galaxy

The problem is organisations frequently have a poor understanding of the equality act as we have seen before.

It's not just organisations, Galaxy it's the population in general. This is why politicians who seek to divide our country get away with making claims that are completely untrue. Farage said, Racism is legal in the UK as long as it's against white people" No, it's not, we are all protected, regardless of colour or race because race is a protected status under the act. Did anyone challenge him? No.
GB news report says "Anti-white RACISM is RIFE in Britain' | White working class boys BANNED from government internship" No, they are not, anyone from a low income group can apply and the initiatives are designed to put disadvantaged young people on the same footing as more adantaged applicants by offering paid internships. It's of note that the children from well off families often do unpaid internships because they can afford to live in London whilst unpaid because they have support from their parents. Anyone talking about this? No.
Numerous people saying we have two tier policing. What absolute rubbish. In July 2024 there were 24.5 stop and searches for every 1,000 black people, and 5.9 for every 1,000 white people. Ask any black male with an upmarket car how many times they have been pulled over by the police. Black drivers are 20% more likely to be pulled over than a white driver yet they don't receive more speeding tickets or convictions for careless driving! Funny that!
I could go on and on but I won't because if people don't want to know the truth, they will continue to listen to those who are prepared to tell them what they are already thinking and believing. It feels good to have your prejudices confirmed and affirmed, especially by politicians it's also less of a mental effort!

But the equality law advisor commenting on the article is mentioning how there is possible risk of discrimination linked to payment for interns etc. .

Sago

So this was in last week’s news; www.linkedin.com/posts/elliot-hammer-37522920_middle-class-white-men-banned-from-public-activity-7469009904591155200-oyye

This is wrong, I believe strongly in meritocracy, it should always be the best person for the job.

Cossy I am amazed you know the voting habits of your friendship group, do you have to fill in an application to join?

Only my husband and children know how I vote.

Taken directly form the National Audit Office website:

"FAQs- Internship Scheme
- Our eight-week summer internship programme offers places to 12-16 undergraduates from an ethnic minority or lower socioeconomic background who are about to enter their final year at university. Interns gain valuable insights and experience into the unique work of the NAO and the opportunity to strengthen their professional network. At the end of the programme all interns can undertake the graduate assessment centre and if successful will be offered a place on our graduate scheme.

Who we are looking for 
-Successful candidates join us from a diverse range of backgrounds and there is no such thing as a typical NAO graduate trainee. We value the unique perspective, insight, talent and contribution each individual brings."

It is not a job on offer from which WBM are excluded therefore. It is an 8 week summer internship opportunity to encourage future assessment applications from less advantaged applicants in an effort to make the graduate training scheme more diverse. WBM are not excluded from the "graduate scheme job" and all applicants at job stage are appointed on merit.

Politcal/ Journalistic spin?

Galaxy

The problem is organisations frequently have a poor understanding of the equality act as we have seen before.

Indeed we have. It's really quite depressing isn't it?

The problem is organisations frequently have a poor understanding of the equality act as we have seen before.

(I was responding to foxie)

Yes, the drive to recruit the Police I allluded to were indeed under that scheme and in this context I think a very good one.

Its so very important that people needing help in all kinds of ways have an opportunity to feel really heard and helped and its genuinely not within the capacity of many young white males to relate to a woman who has suffered certain kinds of problems.

And women have so much to give too... I frequently watch those late night reality TV police or ambulance 999 programmes, and what comes across is the way some women can far better control aggressive male: that when controlling women touch may be involved, and it is therefore helpful. sometimes people are more willing to talk with a woman than a man, and vice versa: it just makes total sense to me.

:that when a crime happens within a particular community, be it Brixton or Barnsley, having people from a variety of race backgrounds is the only way we can build cooperation with various communities.