There seems to be a heavy bias towards philandering men. I just wonder how many of the women involved with them were married. What’s good for the goose … so to say
The far left in France, could it happen here?
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Are extra-marital affairs the answer?
(97 Posts)I spoke quite bluntly on a recent post, citing honestly around having an affair.
So I thought, in the spirit of being honest and open, I’d explain where my “views” come from.
I’m an only child, my mother married someone in her early 20’s that she met in the services, and they eloped.
As was the case, back in the day, she had to give up her “job” and be a service wife.
When based in Singapore, at 24, she gave birth to me. A year on, they relocated to Malaysia and a year after that Düsseldorf, in Germany.
By all accounts it was a very unhappy marriage, my biological father was abusive and also addicted to gambling.
Rather than continue her marriage, she took the very brave decision to return home to England, with me, when I was three years old and asked her parents to house us both, which they did.
She returned to Germany, with me, the following year, to ask my biological father for a divorce and to sort out visitations. He was dead, by suicide, in their army flat.
My mother returned with me to her parents, and remarried the following year to a man she’d known from both primary and secondary school and been friends with of part of a group. He subsequently adopted me.
They wanted more children, but my mother miscarried, following this she then had an ectopic pregnancy and was very unwell and subsequently had a full hysterectomy. Then they tried to adopt but were told they were too old (in early thirties).
So happy ever after…..
Mmm, not quite, my new Dad was absolutely amazing, a kind gentle and generous man, but he had one huge flaw, he was also charming and very good looking, sadly he had several affairs during their long marriage.
My mother knew of two. I didn’t really know of any of this, his job took him travelling at least 50% of his working life, and to be, until my early teens, he was the perfect husband and father.
My teens were horrendous, my mother was very angry most of the time, my dad calm and measured. I blamed my mum!
Of course I discovered around 16 that all the arguments were around his “affairs” and my mother was deeply distressed and unhappy.
They didn’t stay together for me, they stayed together because, despite my father’s appalling behaviour with other women, he truly loved my mother and me.
My mother was devastated by his death in 2016, when he was 80 and she cried every night until her death in 2022.
I never properly forgave my dad, whom I did love, for the misery and sadness he caused my mother due to these affairs, it was a very odd and strange marriage, but they stuck it out and it lasted over fifty years. They clearly loved each other and were great parents to me.
So these events have shaped my views around infidelity.
I still don’t understand, to this day, why my dear father, and in every other respective he was a decent man, continued to have affairs, and I guess I never will.
My own DH had a brief affair when our children were very young. I found out purely by accident and initially he denied it. I was utterly devastated and asked for a divorce. In turn he was devastated as he didn’t want to leave me or the children.
After much soul searching and talking, we decided not to end our marriage. It took a very very long time to repair the damage this affair caused and for years I never fully trusted him. However, we’ve been together now for 33 years and are pretty solid now. To the best of my knowledge he did not have any other affairs, I made it very clear he’d have to leave if this ever happened again.
Our lives are shaped by those things we experience and for me, infidelity is so soul destroying and damaging.
If an affair leads to continual deceit and lie after lie to your spouse/partner then, IMO, that means the person does not respect you - whatever reason they might give for the deception; "I didn't want to hurt you" / "I didn't want to lose you", etc, etc.
For me, that lack of respect would've been the end of the relationship and I know my - now late partner - felt the same because we discussed this. However, we met in our late 40s having both emerged from abusive relationships, and respect and trust were so important to us... I think when you meet in middle-age, the dynamics are different to those which form relationships in youth.
Gango Totally agree are there really so many single and unattached women around for these philandering men to have affairs with
Think this thread may be a tad biased
MissAdventure raises a very valid question when she asks if a drunken mistake can be compared with a serious affair.
I did have one drunken fling, which I regretted, about 7 years into our actually very happy marriage. And I'm pretty sure DH had one - or more? - when our children were babies and he was working away. The flesh is weak.
We never talked about it and it didn't affect our relationship. We really only ever wanted each other.
I had an aunt who spoke four languages and was the PA for the Managing Director of a very big European company. She fell in love with a Mediterranean man when on holiday there in the 1950s! He was married, a very good Catholic, with quite a big family. His wife had serious health issues. When she came to stay with my parents in the late 60s everyday a letter arrived from said Med country at my parent's address. My mother asked her who the letters were from and she told us the story. She said: One cannot always marry the person one falls in love with. When the man's wife died he married her very soon after and moved to her country. They spent twenty happy years together into old age. She must have waited thirty years for him but her job kept her busy.
Gwyllt
Gango Totally agree are there really so many single and unattached women around for these philandering men to have affairs with
Think this thread may be a tad biased
Anything I have writte nwas clearly written to cover both sexes in all parts of this conundrum. Most married men who have a ffairs, have affairs with other women, and since these women are clearly willing partners. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
My opinion is, for me, it is not so much the having sex with another person but the lies that go with it. The sex part is nothing, it is an itch being scratched, but the lies and loss of trust that are the worst part. If humans did not place so much relevance on monogamy there would be less problems.
No. It's not scratching an itch, well not for a woman imo. Real sex is literally love-making as I found the hard way. Eyes dont lie.
Betrayal is betrayal. If you're not getting all you want sexually but all else is well then there is DIY. In the terms of the 1970's, plenty of temptation, but I could never betray or be betrayed.
Kartush
My opinion is, for me, it is not so much the having sex with another person but the lies that go with it. The sex part is nothing, it is an itch being scratched, but the lies and loss of trust that are the worst part. If humans did not place so much relevance on monogamy there would be less problems.
It's not unusual for men - when they discover their wife or partner has had sex with another man - to go completely off the rails and sometimes even commit murder.
If sex is just scratching an itch - then why would they... the so-called 'rational' sex, do this?
Each to their own belief, but I think it's slightly more than an itch - when people have sex, they are making a connection with each other - more often than not.
It might not be a connection that endures, but in that moment you are giving someone else something of yourself.
I'm not sure monogamy is the natural state for humans, but - if you are going to enter into a monogamous relationship then I think you should respect your partner enough to be upfront and tell them if you can't stick to it - because the alternative is so often to indulge in a web of lies and deceit.
I cheated on my husband because he sang the praises of 2 exes who did the same thing! Also never put his hand in his pocket and the other man did.
If you grow up in a household in which an affair has left one partner angry,disappointed and distrustful-you'll sympathesise with anyone who has suffered as a result.
M0nica
We all have our weaknesses., and as I said I do not think you can make broad sweeping generalisations like that.
I agree but would add that each person will tell their own truth. That doesn't mean they are lying but human nature may mean they paint a favourable picture of their behaviour and possibly an unfavorable one of their partners. Some people will be telling it further from the truth than others. Some people will not feel able to share their "truth".
And then there are the gossips ...
If it affects children, I would guess that nowadays they would be better prepared to ask for counselling or other help.
I agree, if the partners/spouses have an other wise good relationship and want to continue, then counselling is an excellent way to find out, whats gone wrong, how can people come to terms (if they can) with what has happened. Children or not, really. It costs but what is more important?
Its a good space to gently unpack each others "truths" by having a third party ask gentle questions that elicit a shared reality as opposed to two POV.
In my 20's I did "break the rules" and caused great hurt. I would not care to do that damage again: but at 22 I was not grown up enough to imagine consequences. I was in a humdrum relationship and he went away, and I was captivated by another, strong sexual feelings:
When he came back he told me he had wanted to marry me, which I actually would not have wanted to, it was news to me, but how little I saw back then.
In your late teens and early 20s I think it's such a huge commitment to make a monogamous vow - for both men and women. How can you possibly know what you are going to have to navigate emotionally, practically, etc?
Isn't it the case, sometimes, that neither partner has done anything 'wrong' to cause an affair - they've just matured in different ways, have differing aspirations, and have simply 'grown apart'?
I think also to expect that one person can fulfil all your needs throughout your entire life is unrealistic - is that maybe why people try to change each other after marriage, demanding that they be more "this way" or less "that way"?
I'm sometimes so cynical when I hear or read about the fuss and palaver that couples make about stag and hen events - not to mention the demands for the 'perfect' wedding... so much focus on the details regarding the cake, flowers, bridesmaids, etc, as if this is the most important part of the relationship. And we know that it's not unusual for the happy couple to break-up within a fairly short space of time afterward.
Perhaps couples should really think hard about what monogamy actually means before committing to it, because the hurt that follows when there is a breach of it can ruin a life at its worst.
Just thinking out loud here.
Wyllow3
In my 20's I did "break the rules" and caused great hurt. I would not care to do that damage again: but at 22 I was not grown up enough to imagine consequences. I was in a humdrum relationship and he went away, and I was captivated by another, strong sexual feelings:
When he came back he told me he had wanted to marry me, which I actually would not have wanted to, it was news to me, but how little I saw back then.
"I would not care to do that damage again: but at 22 I was not grown up enough to imagine consequences."
The issue might be that the person is being "damaged" within what should be a trusted relationship. Life is very complex at times.
I totally agree with your post, Dickens in every respect but particularly your reference to couples growing apart. I married at 21 and divorced when I was 64 and am now married to a very different man whom I knew at school and with whom I have a fulfilling relationship despite the fact that he lives in France. We enjoy time together and apart in our respective countries.
DaisyAnneReturns
Wyllow3
In my 20's I did "break the rules" and caused great hurt. I would not care to do that damage again: but at 22 I was not grown up enough to imagine consequences. I was in a humdrum relationship and he went away, and I was captivated by another, strong sexual feelings:
When he came back he told me he had wanted to marry me, which I actually would not have wanted to, it was news to me, but how little I saw back then."I would not care to do that damage again: but at 22 I was not grown up enough to imagine consequences."
The issue might be that the person is being "damaged" within what should be a trusted relationship. Life is very complex at times.
It was around 1974. a lot of us women, after uni, had no thoughts of marriage, we wanted to sort of live a bit first, maybe settle in a career, and at that time it was still a wee bit "marriage or career" at that age.
I certainly had no thoughts of children, was not maternally inclined, nor ready to be a sort of back up women for an ambitious man.
Many around me lived together for 2/3 years and moved on. Serial monogamy. I settled down at 28.
But really, a mismatch of need. The question of marriage had never, ever, been so much as whispered and it was unusual in my circles to marry anyway, many waited till children were on the way. I just regret I never was perceptive enough to see his thoughts might be heading that way.
Cricky you again, you re like a rash Camilasherry
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