Bleak outlook for the young.

It certainly is abad time for getting a job in the 16-24 age bracket.

This subject was discussed about a month ago.
I will try and find the link.

www.gransnet.com/forums/work_volunteering/1361097-Worrying-trend

Not sure that was the thread I was thinking about, but it might have been

Jane43

I know, our youngest grandchildren are 16 and 17 and would love a part time job to have their own money which would ease the financial burden on their parents. Their sister is 10 years older and was able to get a part time job at 16, she was able to get a transfer to work in the same store while she was at university, when she graduated she worked for a while in retail for the same store but is now happily settled in an admin job and has had two promotions. Both the younger ones plan to go to university after A Levels but part if me wants them to get a trade or a good apprenticeship and avoid the huge debt they will incur.

My DIL's nephew ( 20) worked in a bar during his last year at school. He is now apprenticed to a company that fits alarm systems. He spends some time in college studying for electrical qualifications and the rest of the time at work learning on the job. He's paid; and because he can be called out, out of hours the employer has provided him with a car. ( His Dad taught him to drive and he passed his test while still at school)

His younger brother ( who inherited the bar job) is about to start university, studying Maths. He'll be looking for bar work in his university town.

My neighbour just got her roof stripped and completely re-slated, beautiful professional job , by one crafts man and his young apprentice.

There's a future out there for those willing to adapt, learn new skills and work.

Justnoneed
Some years ago we were on a Motohome site in Portugal.
There was a retired lady on her own with her motohome.
When she retired she knew she wanted to travel with her van.
She knew that her pension wasn’t enough to sustain her for what she wanted to do.
She paid to take a hairdressing and nails course. She was never without customers 😁
Word spread to the degree that motohomes made their way to a site where she was.
As long as she had her scissors she would always have work.

Please don’t despair, this isn’t their future and it’s not necessarily a “new” story about grads.

Although many graduate schemes in large companies have closed down across the last 10 years.

In terms of the person you met with an English Lit degree from Oxford, there’s so many directions this graduate could go, from applying to the many Civil Services departments, where many still have fastrack schemes, to undertaking a 1 further year at University to obtain a teaching certificate. Secondary schools always need well qualified teachers, even NQT (Newly Qualified Teachers).

In terms of your GS, with all due respect, this in entirely his parents choice, and I can understand why they are this, but if this very good school wish to maintain their good reputation, they need to sort their teaching staff asap.

MartavTaurus

As regards your grandson being taught A Level Physics by an inadequate teacher, where are these additional teachers that were promised with the 20% VAT increase on private school fees? I don't mean those new ones who are merely plugging holes where teachers are leaving the profession faster than they are being replaced. I mean the extra highly qualified Maths and Science teachers that Starmer and Reeves spoke about? Hmm.

Well, to be fair, none of these promised teachers (if indeed, there actually are any), will have qualified as yet!

CarrotTop

For at least three decades there has been an obsession with academic achievement which results in too many people thinking that GCSE grades and then university is the only way to succeed in life. The idea is that, unless young people can show a prospective employer a degree certificate, they stand no chance of getting a job. This, combined with an aversion to the idea of starting at the bottom and working their way up, has resulted in a situation where young people must expect to start their working lives heavily in debt. It needn't be that way (and it didn't used to be) but it's going to take a long time before people realise that we're creating too many over-qualified people chasing too few jobs. (And the new god, AI, is only going to make that situation worse.)
Also (don't shoot the messenger), due to turning universities into businesses which operate largely on the bums-on-seats principle, too many youngsters are being shoehorned into universities who really shouldn't be there. I taught more than a few of those during my working life and felt terribly sorry for them. In each new intake there were always several who simply couldn't string a coherent sentence together, verbally or on paper. Sadly, their parents thought uni was a magic door which would automatically swing open to let their kids into a jobs market falling over itself to give them highly-paid work. It's a sad situation but general principles, attitudes and ideals have to change or it will just go on.

I agree, of our 5 children, only two decided to go to Uni, two went onto work after A levels, and one is a musician, who attended college for three years, not doing A levels.

Well, to be fair, none of these promised teachers (if indeed, there actually are any), will have qualified as yet!
Not necessarily. Maths graduates in other jobs could have got a PGCE in less than 12 months. Had the conditions and pay been favourable, they could have transitioned.

MartavTaurus

^Well, to be fair, none of these promised teachers (if indeed, there actually are any), will have qualified as yet!^
Not necessarily. Maths graduates in other jobs could have got a PGCE in less than 12 months. Had the conditions and pay been favourable, they could have transitioned.

Yes, this is indeed true.

"I agree. Part working and summer jobs are great learning experiences for life".
"I was wondering about the perceived need for youngsters to 'go travelling'. It sets them back a year in the competition for jobs"

I agree about the part-time working because, added to the learning experience, they gain in confidence as well as earning their own money.

'Going travelling' - all mine did that and that was a great experience as well as helping them gain confidence, deal with different people etc.
My granddaughter is planning to do this, not sure what she wants to do in the future but is now working to save up which is adding to her skill set.

Several posts mention plumbing. I know a boy who wants to train as a plumber but he failed GCSE English and maths so can’t. Those forced to resit are unlikely to pass.
My Oxford graduate friend said, ‘I could probably get a job in AI for an arms manufacturer.’ He has no proper job but still has his principles.

Visgir1

It's such a shame.
I personally wish there was more little part time jobs for theses youngsters. It helps so much in confidence and structure. Employers are reluctant to take them on? They don't pay NI or Tax if they earn less than £96 per week and I doubt they will.
I was involved in the Education level in my career, taking on Apprentice 's up to training posts for Masters in my profession, you could tell the difference with those that have had past working experience it definitely gave them a foot in the door.
These little jobs help employers to see you are a worker post degree /A levels.

My son had a little part time job in Asda's, they switched him to a local one near his University term time and back again when he was home. It was good for his self esteem, it was even brought up on the job he eventually got as they knew he was a good worker. Plus he had his own money, and didn't over blow his Student loan.

My dad always installed a work ethic in us kids.we all had weekend jobs. I had three part time jobs as a student. Shoe shop, restaurant & diy store.
You are right, it did give me the confidence I needed as I was on the quiet side.

My Grandson decided against going to University and instead took an apprenticeship in engineering with a large local company.
Now completed his appenticeship aged 23 he is earning £45000 per year. University is not the only route to a well paid career.

Maggymay

My Grandson decided against going to University and instead took an apprenticeship in engineering with a large local company.
Now completed his appenticeship aged 23 he is earning £45000 per year. University is not the only route to a well paid career.

Well done to him. I call it a university of life. Plus he will have no debt to pay.
He will probably get on the property ladder as well if he’s earning a good wage- you must all be proud 😊

For her "jobs tax" Rachel Reeves move led to the loss of many part time service jobs which were previously free from tax and NI. There are other reasons (AI) for the decline of the jobs market and graduate level openings.

Beyond tax and tech, general economic confidence is low. High borrowing costs and global trade uncertainties mean businesses are choosing to leave positions unfilled when staff depart rather than proactively funding expansion

Future chancellors will tinker around at the edges but the economy cannot be "fixed". The signs are that the future of the welfare state supported by taxation has entered into its final phase.

I do think there is too much making generalisations from samples of one or drawing on anecdotal information.

Were I to generalise from DGD's experience. I would say there is no problem everything is hunkydory. She is now at university, but last year had 2 well paid jobs, relatively speaking, working as a Teaching Assistant and teaching dancing.

But all of us, including her, know just how fortunate she has been, and do not say just because she has been fortunate, there isn't a probleem.

But, as I said further up, yes, life is not easy for your people, but it was considerably worse in the 1980s.

watermeadow

Several posts mention plumbing. I know a boy who wants to train as a plumber but he failed GCSE English and maths so can’t. Those forced to resit are unlikely to pass.
My Oxford graduate friend said, ‘I could probably get a job in AI for an arms manufacturer.’ He has no proper job but still has his principles.

This isn’t strictly true, our youngest failed English GSCE, Lord only knows how! However when he went to college, he was “forced” to resit, as a condition of completing the course he enrolled on. He passed.

I think the other thing, sometimes a little overlooked, was both the credit crunch, and the massively high interest rates in the 1980’s.

Many many people lost jobs in the 80’s due to redundancies and companies going into liquidation.

Following this the next decade showed many people losing their homes due to sub-prime mortgages and the banking crisis.

At one point in my house I had £15,000+ negative equity.

I think each generation faces their own crisis and dramas and, as with previous generations, they will mostly, in the main, get through this.

M0nica

Things were every bit as bad as this, in fact far worse in the 1980s. DD, aged 15 was utterly nihilistic about life, was, initially not even prepared to do GCSEs, let alone stay at school after the minimum leaving age - and she was at grammar school.

What of that 80s generation now? Are they all unemplyed and homeless, of course they aren't. Theys are spread across the population in the way you would expect, everything from head teachers to teaching assistants, government ministers to working as hospital porters.

The same will happen with this generation of children, things will be difficult but things will improveand when their grandchildren are railing against how dreadful the economy is in 2055 this current wiltell them about how thinss were difficult for them, but all worked out OK in the end.

Even in the 1960s, not every new graduate walked straight into a job. Friends of mine did waiting and bar work while waiting to get onto the career ladder

You are right Monica, I recently looked it up and youth unemployment was 30% in 1981. I was teaching in further education from 1983 and I remember how despondent some students were about their employment prospects.

Feel I need to say that describing working in a supermarket as an “horror story” is pretty rude.
Supermarket workers were among the people who kept all of those lucky enough to be furloughed or to be able to work from home going during the pandemic.
I had hoped that lesson had dispelled such snobbery.

We have encouraged our young people to aim for university but why? 3 of my 5 children went to university, saddled themselves with debt and although they are all in full-time employment, their jobs are in no way related to their degrees. My eldest son who left school at 16 with very few GCSE's went to a local vocational college to learn bricklaying. That was literally the building blocks for the high flying career he has now, delivering high end restaurants to the hospitality industry. He was seen as a failure by many others who had children at uni.
The Government have to stop the rot amongst our future generations.
Well done, Basgetti for your comments on supermarket workers. We need to alter our mindset that those who work in such jobs are second class citizens.

I never get how saying "things were worse back sometime or other". would console a youngster of today, trying hard to find work.

We have encouraged our young people to aim for university but why? 3 of my 5 children went to university, saddled themselves with debt and although they are all in full-time employment, their jobs are in no way related to their degrees

I am surprised the tide hasnt turned before now.

Hope I suppose.

Jane43

M0nica

Things were every bit as bad as this, in fact far worse in the 1980s. DD, aged 15 was utterly nihilistic about life, was, initially not even prepared to do GCSEs, let alone stay at school after the minimum leaving age - and she was at grammar school.

What of that 80s generation now? Are they all unemplyed and homeless, of course they aren't. Theys are spread across the population in the way you would expect, everything from head teachers to teaching assistants, government ministers to working as hospital porters.

The same will happen with this generation of children, things will be difficult but things will improveand when their grandchildren are railing against how dreadful the economy is in 2055 this current wiltell them about how thinss were difficult for them, but all worked out OK in the end.

Even in the 1960s, not every new graduate walked straight into a job. Friends of mine did waiting and bar work while waiting to get onto the career ladder

You are right Monica, I recently looked it up and youth unemployment was 30% in 1981. I was teaching in further education from 1983 and I remember how despondent some students were about their employment prospects.

Is the 30% calculated on the same criteria as today, if not any comparison is misleading.

I'm not sure who it is people are blaming but many seem to think someone or a group of someone's are to blame with the caveat that it's "nothing to do with me guv". And yet our generation has known for decades that we were moving to a post-industrial society and that we need education appropriate to that.

The modern mass-education system developed alongside industrialisation. It was not simply designed to teach people facts; it also helped produce a population able to function in a large, organised, increasingly bureaucratic economy.
Its characteristic features include:
• Age-based cohorts: children progress through school in groups.
• Standardisation: common curricula, examinations, and credentials.
• Time discipline: timetables, bells, attendance, deadlines.
• Specialisation: subjects divided into distinct areas of knowledge.
• Selection: qualifications used to sort people into further education and occupations.
• Teacher as authority: knowledge is largely transmitted from an expert to learners.
This model has obvious strengths. It can provide broad access, shared knowledge, socialisation, and a relatively reliable way of preparing people for complex work. But it was built for a world in which knowledge was relatively scarce, occupational roles were more stable, and learning was expected to happen mainly before employment.

Many of the people posting here have posted in support of exactly this system. We really needed to understand the needs of a post-industrial society. What education do we need for a society where the economy, technology, and ways of working are changing beyond the industrial model that shaped mass schooling?