Bleak outlook for the young.

Only one of my GC has chosen to go to uni after A levels. Eldest did and is now a Mental Health Nurse with lots of options in her career of choice.
Three others are working. One whose friends mother has a business in insulation and he works for her. Hard work but well paid.
His twin works from home doing editing work which he is self taught and is becoming well thought of and recommended by others.
Another has a well paid job in an early years education and has just completed all her exams whilst working in situ.
The 17 yr old still doing A levels has a Saturday job in a local barbers and thinks she might train to go into that type of industry.,she’s very creative and artistic. Her dream is to open her own barbers with only lady stylists.

No huge debts incurred from university and all earning decent money.

The last 3 GC are still at school but hope to go into drama/acting/dance, already teaching toddlers and primary ballet and tap, at the age of 14.And littlest aims to work with animals.

It’s great to have dreams and forward thinking ideas that can be encouraged and supported.

Basgetti

It was far easier in the 1980s. As a secretary, I was able to buy a nice flat in a London suburb for just under three times my salary. Not a cat in hell’s chance a similar young person could do the same now.

Property was cheap then because so few people could afford to do that. If they had the money their jobs were precarious, but too many did not have the money

I remember so well the mass house repossessions of the late 1980s, when many houses halved in value. In 1993. DD went to university in South London. House prices had slumped so badly in the previous 5 years that it was cheaper for her to buy a property with one of us guarantor than to rent. The two flats we seriously considered had both been bought in 1990 for more than twice the price that DD would be paying, leaving their previous owners burdened with a heavy debt that would take years to clear.

In bad times, there are always some people who do well out of it. I suspect Basgetti that your flat, like DD's was so affordable because the fraught economic circumstances meant that house prices had slumped so much - as I said, in some areas of London, prices had halved, it meant that someone like you fortunate enough to have a secure job could indeed afford a flat, as we could guarantee DD's purchase because her mortgage was so small we could add the value of her mortgage to our existing mortgage and still be good for that amount.

But the price of those affordable flats was mass unemployment and extensive repossessions.

GS did poorly in his A levels. (His mum blamed Covid, but no, realistically he didn’t do the work 🤷‍♀️) He didn’t want to go to uni, which didn’t help as he had little to aim for.

Mooched around for a bit, but then got an apprenticeship as an electrician with a well regarded local firm. Never thought he would do a practical, trade job, but surprised (and pleased) me how he took to it.

Now, 3 years on, he is nearly qualified, enjoys his job, and has earned all that time. His mates, who have just finished uni, are in the main still looking for work.

His sister did her A levels this year. Despite putting in far more work than her brother, she didn’t get the grades she needed for her chosen uni. After going through clearing, she decided against taking ‘second best choice’ and opted to have a year out. She’s had a weekend job in a cafe for the past 2.5 years, and is carrying on with shifts there while she thinks what to do, whether to try for uni next year.

Personally, I’m glad she didn’t opt for the second choice, and hope that after a year, she will give up the idea of uni, and after earning for so long, just keep working and moving on, job wise, not sure what though.

Once she (swiftly) got over her disappointment, I honestly think the idea of uni is much less appealing, now she’s left her grammar school, where going to uni is the be all and end all.

Basgetti

It was far easier in the 1980s. As a secretary, I was able to buy a nice flat in a London suburb for just under three times my salary. Not a cat in hell’s chance a similar young person could do the same now.

You must have been earning an excellent salary, Basgetti.

We bought a very small house in a London suburb in 1980 and it cost six times my husband's salary as a senior Manager, added to which the interest rates were very high if I remember correctly. Luckily we did have a good deposit to put down, having sold a house in a much less expensive area. It was a tough time.

I bought my first flat, locally, absolutely way I could have afforded on in London, where I worked, in 1983. It cost just over 4 times my salary, and interest rates were 17%.

I still had to commute into London, sell my beloved car to buy white goods and for the first year took a second evening job, three evenings a week.

I was 24.

*no way.

Gingster

Only one of my GC has chosen to go to uni after A levels. Eldest did and is now a Mental Health Nurse with lots of options in her career of choice.
Three others are working. One whose friends mother has a business in insulation and he works for her. Hard work but well paid.
His twin works from home doing editing work which he is self taught and is becoming well thought of and recommended by others.
Another has a well paid job in an early years education and has just completed all her exams whilst working in situ.
The 17 yr old still doing A levels has a Saturday job in a local barbers and thinks she might train to go into that type of industry.,she’s very creative and artistic. Her dream is to open her own barbers with only lady stylists.

No huge debts incurred from university and all earning decent money.

The last 3 GC are still at school but hope to go into drama/acting/dance, already teaching toddlers and primary ballet and tap, at the age of 14.And littlest aims to work with animals.

It’s great to have dreams and forward thinking ideas that can be encouraged and supported.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

Aveline

Some jobs can never be replaced by AI. While studying English literature is interesting it's not a guarantee of an actual job. Do young people need more detailed counselling on what exactly they should study that might lead to a real job?

Totally agree Aveline. I was really concerned that a friend of my sons missed out on the university course they wanted because they took Art at A level and missed out, by a very small margin, on achieving the grade required to enable them to qualify for the course they wanted to do. They had to opt for a different degree leading to a different career choice.
Although a lovely pastime what do you actually do with an Art qualification other than teach, two of my own family did Art degrees and discovered this.
Children need to be encouraged to think, even vaguely, about what work area they would be suited to and encouraged to take subjects that are aligned to that.

Cossy

I bought my first flat, locally, absolutely way I could have afforded on in London, where I worked, in 1983. It cost just over 4 times my salary, and interest rates were 17%.

I still had to commute into London, sell my beloved car to buy white goods and for the first year took a second evening job, three evenings a week.

I was 24.

I did pretty much the same in 1970 by 21 I was skilled self employed and earning similar money, today you train and learn a skill it can be done today.

A good tradesman or technician does earn very good wages without university all it needs is commitment to training. My Granddaughter at 22 has just bought a house, college training plus 1 yr probation salary £45k + extras. It's the job she wanted from a very young age, very committed.

MT62

Actually win it is true. My sil went working with his dad roofing, actually earning more money than working in car insurance.
Now moaning that roofing is harder graft than sitting on his computer all day.

Yes I am sure he earns more money but was doubting AI could his job better than he could. Grafting is hard work for sure, good to have 2 trades to fall back on though.

Can’t quote you for some reason, JenniRen.
I earned £17,00 pa, aged 23, as a secretary in a merchant bank in the city, which was standard.
My flat in Woodford Green was £50,000. Most of my colleagues of similar age and status owned their homes.
I’ve just googled . It was in a building called Montalt house. A 1 bed there now is £275,000.
Don’t suppose many 23 year old secretaries are earning £91k 🤷‍♀️

£17,000, not £1,700!

Yes win it’s handy to have a trade to fall back on.
My niece is a graphic designer, she agreed that her job could go the same way.
She’s a terrific baker so I suppose she could go into that as a back up.

Sheba

Aveline

Some jobs can never be replaced by AI. While studying English literature is interesting it's not a guarantee of an actual job. Do young people need more detailed counselling on what exactly they should study that might lead to a real job?

Totally agree Aveline. I was really concerned that a friend of my sons missed out on the university course they wanted because they took Art at A level and missed out, by a very small margin, on achieving the grade required to enable them to qualify for the course they wanted to do. They had to opt for a different degree leading to a different career choice.
Although a lovely pastime what do you actually do with an Art qualification other than teach, two of my own family did Art degrees and discovered this.
Children need to be encouraged to think, even vaguely, about what work area they would be suited to and encouraged to take subjects that are aligned to that.

Sheba There are many professions that can and do employ people with a range of art based degrees. Graphic design, advertising, publishing, cartography, to name but a few that immediately spring to mind. And that is from cold, never having considered the issue before. A degree is not meant to be an occupational education.

I made the same mistake you are now making when I left school. I wanted to read history, but everybody always said to me 'What are you going to do, teach? In fact it was said to me so many times I decided to read economics instead.

My sister ignored the teacher sayers. She did do a degree in history and ended up the Director of a heritage organisation. DDiL studied history and she is the Director of a Museum. DD studied acting and now has a senior job in banking. All three of them having got their degrees and started their career journey, then added to their qualifications with further degrees, done part time while working. the same applies to me.

Sometimes the further degrees related to their first degree and career path, others helped them move from one career to another. Times have changed. A Bachelor degree is only the start of the education you need for adult life. It merely gets you going, what happens after that is the result of your continuing lifelong education.

It is far more important that some one gets a good class degree in a subject they really love, even if it does not have an obvious career path than a mediocre degree in Business Studies

"It is far more important that some one gets a good class degree in a subject they really love, even if it does not have an obvious career path than a mediocre degree in Business Studies"

Business studies is actually a very good choice because skills are transferable, it's only your own ability that restricts how high you go. If your degree is mediocre either you don't have the ability or you didnt try hard enough
At 20 Business Management was my diploma subject it opened up a whole new world how to make money, not just accept wages.

I was not casting aspersions on Business Studies.

To be more clear I was saying it is better to have a 1st class degree in English than a third class or pass degree in Business studies.

An employer will have more confidence in someone with a very good degree, even if the subject is not directly relevant, who they would expect to be more flexible and creative and faster learning, than someone who has the 'right' degree but obviously struggled and may well be less flexible and creative, and a slower learner.

I came across examples of both, when I was at work.and generally the person with the 1st class degree in an irrelevant subject had a far more successful career than the plodder with the right degree.

One of mine made far more money from her art than she does as a psychologist. Trouble is, the art involves travelling around the world which is hard with children in tow but psychology is in a fixed place.

These days it is common to find you trying to sort something out and realise you are talking to a bot. After a minute or two it is such a relief when the human is replaced to finish the discussion. It will be a long time before the job is given toAI although it allows a customer to begin the process. For that reason I expect less staff might manage a communication problem. My grandson got a first in financial economics at a good university. He soon got a job and has progressed up the ladder. That was because he studied in a field he wanted to work. He was lucky. His partner also received a good degree in forensics and psychology but hasn’t been able to use it for work but she has done quite well in the HR area. Now another young person has finished three years at university Studying sociology with all the debt this occurred. No luck with jobs but has done well working with young people so is beginning a teachers training course but of course more student debt. However, education broadens the mind and enriches the person . It is never wasted. I feel so sorry for youngsters who receive nothing but knock backs for their efforts and blame the last chancellor who made employing people so much more expensive instead of encouraging work and raising unemployment benefits. Then again, we have seen these periods of unemployment which have changed as time has sorted things out. Let’s hope Andy Burnham will deliver work schemes/apprenticeships and ease the difficulties the employer has experienced financially when wishing to employ workers.

My grandkids (7of them between 20 and 28 ) have all got good jobs The five girls all went to university (youngest is still there and works two jobs while at uni ) they all got good career jobs on finishing The two boys preferred hands on work one did a apprenticeship, one went straight to work at 17 and now 8 years later is buying his own house.
Four have been prepared to move away from their hometown to forward their careers
All but one had jobs from age 13 so had full CV s and a good work ethic
I don’t think things are really any harder today, than in the past but I do find a lot of young people not prepared to look sideways for work, by that I mean, it may not be the route they expected but they need to be prepared to take a different path if necessary.
I ll add we come from very ordinary, non professional, roots all hard working though with no contacts to help any legs up .
My children and grand children have all done extremely well, but me, I hit many dead ends and probably never reached my full potential until my children had left home so a very late starter with lots of huge knock backs.

"However, education broadens the mind and enriches the person ."

Yes, but so does life outside university it's up to the individual to enrich their life, it's pretty slim justification for acquiring a £60,000 debt. The education industry would fail any efficiency target based on real outcomes for students.
Students go to university because they have it drilled into them that they will be able to earn more and have a better life. What is an acceptable target 80%, 50% or even lower.

David49

"However, education broadens the mind and enriches the person ."

Yes, but so does life outside university it's up to the individual to enrich their life, it's pretty slim justification for acquiring a £60,000 debt. The education industry would fail any efficiency target based on real outcomes for students.
Students go to university because they have it drilled into them that they will be able to earn more and have a better life. What is an acceptable target 80%, 50% or even lower.

Or they go because their chosen career path insists on a degree.

Lawyers, teachers, doctors, nurses. Dentists, midwives, and a whole raft of other NHS based job roles.

Also, for example, some civil service jobs require a degree.

I’m not knocking either route, I think education is far far more than just University, but all routes have a place.

I chose not to continue studying after my O levels and did a two year diploma course in Drama and Theatre Arts, followed by a private secretarial course, all courtesy of bank of Mum and Dad, and I know I was extremely lucky to be “indulged”.

I had zero clue about what I actually wanted to do as a job and in fact had several different jobs in many different areas during the first 5 years of my working life.

That’s where it was easier, far easier to get work. You could genuinely take your CV around to all sorts of places and “sell yourself”. I finished two jobs on a Friday, and by the following week had a new job.

I also had many different part time jobs in my teens, including an extremely lucrative babysitting round and a Saturday job in a bakers, where I probably ate more than I sold haha.

The other very salient point was, despite having very generous and reasonably comfortably off parents, I would literally try any job to make some cash. I had some truly awful jobs between 16-22, including on a supermarket till and in a care home, live in nanny, (experience gained from the many many babysitting jobs I’d had and “word of mouth”) and a truly awful job in an Employment area in Fish Street Hill, near the monument.

* Agency, not area!