Diplomatic Immunity

Harry Dunn's parents must feel badly let down, our own justice system has not supported them.

Mr P made the same observation about diplomats potentially getting away with murder. That poor family are not going to get closure at all. Anne Sacoolas is not to be held to account for the accident that caused their son’s death although there seems to be no dispute that she was the cause of it. It’s so unjust.

It’s bad enough that diplomatic immunity is given to Embassy staff but can’t be right it’s also given to partners and no doubt older children to too if they get into trouble.
I do remember all the parking fines which diplomats from different embassies just ignored, and probably still do, but this is something quite different.
I really feel for the family. I heard the report and Harry’s mum said they would carry on their fight for common justice.

No justice here I am afraid. It is fundamentally wrong. I feel so sorry for the family - it is bad enough that their son should be killed, but to have the known perpetrator get off scot free is a disgrace.

How can this woman live with herself? We all make mistakes, and she got it wrong - if that were me I would want to apologise profusely to the family and acknowledge my fault.

I wonder if i was in the USA and killed someone would i get diplomatic immunity.
I think not.
It`s a licence to kill.

This is an interesting article - not very long- and written by a former UK diplomat. Worth a read but not good for BP.

www.newstatesman.com/world/north-america/2019/10/diplomats-governments-are-too-immune-accountability

But timetogo2016 you're not a diplomat, or a diplomat's spouse. (Are you?)

Not that I am in any way defending Mrs Sacoolas, or diplomatic immunity in this sort of case. It is wrong on every level that she has got off scot free. I feel so desperately sorry for Harry Dunn's parents. What an appalling, unnecessary waste of a young life

Anne Sacoolas is a moral coward not to take responsibility for taking this young man's life and hiding behind diplomatic immunity.
I feel so sorry for his parents. They will never rest until justice is done and it looks as though it never will be.

It works both ways. Our diplomats and their families are protected in the same way.

Modern diplomatic immunity was codified as international law in the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations (1961) which has been ratified by all but a handful of nations.

Yes, it does cause us some problems, but what is the alternative? It would mean that without it, disgruntled foreign countries could arrest our diplomats on trumped up charges whenever they felt like it and itr would be to their advantage to do so.

timetogo2016 You would be quite glad of it if you were a diplomat or family member and, say, Russia decided it would be advantageous to them to arrest you on some trumped up charge.

Yes, this incodent is unfortunate and my heart goes out to Harry Dunn's family, but cases like this rare and no system is perfect.

Apparently she is entitled to diplomatic immunity, but that doesn't mean that she has to take it. The woman is a coward, and I wonder what her children will think of her when they grow older and discover what she has done.

25 years ago ish! I was shopping in M&S High St Kensington.
2 ladies in full burkas were busy filling their bags with goods.
When I went to the check out I spoke to the assistant.
She said there was nothing to be done because the 2 ladies in question had diplomatic immunity and were known to staff.

According to several newspapers she and her husband are CIA.

@Missfoodlove, I really don’t see why on earth those two women could not have been made to empty their bags at the exit, before being escorted from the shop. Diplomatic immunity surely just means that they couldn’t be arrested or charged.

I do see why diplomatic immunity is a thing, though. Even if it’s often abused - as it certainly is - it does mean that seriously dodgy regimes can’t with impunity lock up any diplomat they don’t happen to like. No country can pick and choose where to apply it.

If you all remember, when the Dunn family went to the White House to talk to DT, he had asked ( and she came) Mrs Sacoolass to be there in a room, where she would express her sorrow to the family.They wouldn’t see her.I do think it could have given them some sort of closure if they had.It was a terrible accident, and Mrs Sacoolass will have to live with the knowledge that her mistake killed a young man.
Yes, I do think it would have been better if she had stayed in England, but she did have official immunity and was advised to leave.A tragedy all round.
Apparently, since then, there have been a few accidents caused by Americans leaving the base on the same road!

lemongrove

If you all remember, when the Dunn family went to the White House to talk to DT, he had asked ( and she came) Mrs Sacoolass to be there in a room, where she would express her sorrow to the family.They wouldn’t see her.I do think it could have given them some sort of closure if they had.It was a terrible accident, and Mrs Sacoolass will have to live with the knowledge that her mistake killed a young man.
Yes, I do think it would have been better if she had stayed in England, but she did have official immunity and was advised to leave.A tragedy all round.
Apparently, since then, there have been a few accidents caused by Americans leaving the base on the same road!

This is a real misrepresentation of the truth and incredibly unfair. That shit Trump completely ambushed a grieving family to try and serve his own ends ( as ever) .

Here’s the real version
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-northamptonshire-50064595

We made the same comment re they can get away with murder. I see the point of diplomatic immunity as pointed out by Monica but I feel that Anna Sacooles has behaved very poorly. She should have come back to face the music. I’m sure she feels remorseful and would probably have got away with a charge of involuntary manslaughter or death by dangerous driving at worst. If a sentence was handed down she could have asked to serve it in the USA by special agreement. The Dunn family have suffered so much which could have been somewhat eased if Mrs Sacooles had behaved with some compassion for them.

All people with enough power (to be used for lack of accountability) can abuse it to get away with anything.

How about prince Philip's car accident 2019?
The outcome was more favourable but if a person had died because of him, he wouldn't have been been held accountable whatsoever

I’m surprised they haven't improved the road system leaving RAF Croughton its far too easy to turn out on the wrong side of the road, to would be easy to improve it.
When you leave the ferry at Calais it is almost impossible to go wrong.

It was a fait accompli once Saccoolass was sent home, the US was not going to have her exposed to publicity. Probably she was a former high profile spook herself.

Sorry for Harry’s parents.

I agree Laura. And the absolute reality is that in the circumstances of this case, there would have been no custodial sentence anyway. As for diplomatic immunity, I see the point of it as a concept but it’s been long in need of an overhaul

Yes pretty much agree with the OP. Aside from the Harry Dunn tragedy. Diplomatic immunity is often open to abuse on a whole gamut of issues starting with relatively minor misdemeanours such as parking fines to worse case scenarios, murder/manslaughter It always appeared to be a cover for shady goings on by some. Time for an overhaul.

So sad for Harry’s family. They have conducted themselves very well. The woman obviously doesn’t have any guilt - I know I wouldn’t be able to live with myself if I was in her shoes. Disgraceful.

It amazes me that anyone thinks Trump’s behaviour towards them was anywhere near acceptable. They are an amazing family who were thrust into a terrible limelight with no experience of dealing with power. Imagine what sheer guts it took to say no to Trump and his disgraceful ambush.

suziewoozie it doesn’t matter what Trump’s intentions were, the fact is, that Mrs Sacoolas was there, in the White House and ready to meet with the Dunn family.Of course it was up to the family to either meet / or not, but it was a choice.