Isolating over 70s for 4 months

We are where we are with the number of beds ,staff and equipment and I agree with Whitewave now is not the time for arguing about the reasons,or haircuts.It's about taking practical,positive action to limit the spread amongst all generations .Protecting the most vulnerable,and enabling those fitter working age ones to carry on essential work.Like our DD an ICU nurse.Those who deliver our food,empty our bins,keep clean water flowing to our homes - heaven help us if we need bottled water.Imagine the panic buying then.
It stands to reason the more people who take themselves out of circulation the less explosive the growth of cases will be.
I totally understand why people are very concerned.And a lot will depend on individual circumstances as to how difficult or depressing it may be.A house with a large garden is very different from a flat without one.Most of our neighbours are over 70-I am not yet so maybe I'm not qualified to comment ? However in coming months if things get much worse I will dedicate myself to helping DD get to work by helping with her children,and my neighbours GC if need be and helping our community by shopping.I am starting to think of ways to boost morale and provide some kind of contact for those at home.We all need to muck in and do our bit,however inconvenient.

Apparently application for divorce has spiked in China?

I'm on another posting forum with mostly American contributors. Apparently toilet rolls are disappearing from shops as they are here but ammunition has also sold out...

I thought they were taking the mental problems which will arise into consideration VQ? At least I hoped so. DH and I reckon we can manage a couple of weeks confinement together, but then we fear we’ll be at each other’s throats. One of us will be done for murder when the doors are finally reopened.

eleothan

I have just read your post, and would like to address your comment that I have copied below

So people over 70 who are not willing to completely isolate themselves for 4 months and who sadly succumb to the virus must be portrayed as being foolish/stubborn/selfish and bearing the primary responsibility for their own illness/death, rather than a different narrative - "we couldn't treat them properly because we didn't have enough nurses, beds or staff" - being presented.

If I am correct I think that you are concerned that this concentration on the elderly and sick of any age amounts to ”othering” leading to the rest of the population showing disapproval or worse.

That this in turn draws attention away from the real culprits in the matter where the NHS has been left in such a parlous state that that ICU bed level and associated staffing and equipment per capita is one of the lowest levels in Europe. To make matters worse the EU has quite rightly announced that none of the life saving equipment will leave for export as it must be used to save the lives of its own citizens.

I absolutely agree that this, in the final analysis, is where the blame will lie - not in the most vulnerable or sick (what else is the NHS for) but my concern is that given this parlours state and the existential threat to our lives, we must try to do all we can as the most at risk community to get through this unscathed. That we use forums such as this to support each other.

Of course individuals can continue to live their normal lives going out and about exposing themselves to covid19 - that is entirely their prerogative given that we thankfully live in a relatively free society.

However, I doubt very much that a clinician would see their actions as sensible given the situation we are in and knowing the danger they are in. We must also give thought to those health workers who will undoubtedly be mentally and physically scarred by the decisions they will have to make and the shear hard exhausting work that is ahead.

It is for these reasons alone that I argue that we as an elderly and sick community have a responsibility to look after ourselves and try to avoid covid19 and a very unpleasant death.

There will be time in the future to lay blame and punish those responsible for what lies ahead. In my opinion, now is not the time, now we are fighting for our lives.

I have agoraphobia and, when DH isn't able to take me out, self isolate by default. You have no idea how mind numbingly depressing staying indoor for days at a time can be. It would be so much worse if you have to stay in for months. There are only so many jobs that you can get on with to keep busy. Reading is brilliant but no one wants to read 12 hours a day every day. Daytime TV is mostly brain rotting. Even the happiest of couples will start to get on each other's nerves. You may be helping the NHS in the short term and protecting your physical health but there is little doubt that your mental health will suffer and a lot of people will need NHS support to recover. Don't forget mental health is the even poorer relation of the already poverty stricken NHS. Use your common sense. Avoid crowds. Wash your hands properly. Cross your fingers. But be prepared to catch it regardless. This isn't about protecting you but to try to even out the pressure on the already underfunded and thereby overloaded system. Now it appears that to make sure you stay indoors they've decided to introduce a £1000 fine, detainment and even imprisonment.

So everyone is trying to get along but one or two have to start getting personally insulting. Why? What cost is it to you that we are talking about missing having our hair done? Why is it suddenly "vain". Most people care what the look like or are we going to abandon all sense of the civilization we know? How about us accusing you of not keeping up your standards. Why not just let us all be different and ourselves? I imagine people will talk about stranger things before four months are up. Why do you have to be so rude and why oh why are you the only ones who know how to get through this. It hasn't even happened yet and you are trying to make a mountain out of a very small molehill.

Re the hair thing. Yes it’s trivial and my friend who is lockdown in Italy has talked about all the serious aspects every day BUT just yesterday she told me to go to the hairdresser before I’m housebound (flatbound ) and says she had that day got properly dressed and made up as she was sick of being in trackies or pyjamas and it’s helping keep her morale up.

If this virus targeted children, we would walk over hot coals to protect them from exposure. No school, no play dates, no days at Legoland. Would we call that ageism? No, it would be common sense. So this affects seniors. Don't we have the same need for protection? Defiance is counter productive personally and to society as well.

As my well and fit husband is nearly 70 but still works he had his own small business he is healthy and well how on earth is he expected to take four months off work ,of cause if he showed signs of illness he would isolate himself but really,we are now not able to draw state pension until 67 being told we have to work but suddenly we might have to stay in when we hit 70 because we are elderly ,a lot of over seventys are fitter than some fifty years old I find this idea patronising and insulting to people who are well And have on underlying illness

Yes prattling really!

It came to me tonight, I wonder whether the govt will row back on removing free TV licences from the over-75’s? If ever there’s a time everyone will be relying on tv, it’s now.

Condolences to those who have recently been bereaved. It must be so hard coping when life has suddenly thrown us all such a curve ball. Life seems surreal enough atthese times without the additional chaos.

Hard to believe how some people expect the whole world to revolve around them. Apparently serotonin plays a more important part in resilience and recuperation than was previously realised. It will be interesting to see how well the hand wringing doom merchants fair in comparison to those who make a conscious decision to make the best of a horrid situation.

My neighbour used to do online shops for his mother who lived 250 miles away so once things have calmed down and everyone has enough toilet rolls it should be possible to get some groceries.

My DD2 put a message on a local community group offering to add neighbours shopping to her online shop. I must warn her to ask for the money up front if anyone asks for Kruger and caviar.

Further up thread it was questioned how such a 4-month rule could be enforced. I suggested that it can be enforced by the general public showing, or speaking, their disapproval if they see an obviously elderly person out on the street.

From this thread it can be seen that this sort of pressure can quite easily be applied. Already some posters are implying that those who are not willing to go into isolation for 4 months will be guilty of wasting the NHS's time and precious resources, of being selfish, idiotic, etc, etc.

It appears that we are already in a situation where the government is panicking. Having starved the NHS of staff and equipment, we are now in a situation where, even if we had anywhere near enough respirators (which we apparently don't) we don't have enough staff - and it was reported that many staff are not trained in the use of respirators. So people over 70 who are not willing to completely isolate themselves for 4 months and who sadly succumb to the virus must be portrayed as being foolish/stubborn/selfish and bearing the primary responsibility for their own illness/death, rather than a different narrative - "we couldn't treat them properly because we didn't have enough nurses, beds or staff" - being presented.

Of course, this is an unprecedented and unknown health threat and every country will have great difficulty in having sufficient resources to manage it. However, as I said before, those working on the front line - doctors, nurses, paramedics, support staff - have been saying for several years that, should a major health emergency occur, the NHS would be unable to cope. Despite the undoubted hard work and goodwill of its harried staff, even before this crisis there were many reports of bed shortages and ambulances that were taking hours to arrive.

I understand keeping the morale up in difficult times.

I guess I keep my morale up in different ways - not just my looks.
My looks mean nothing if I end suffering complications, maybe hospitalized.

I count my blessings in being healthy, having a good time while I cannot do what I used to do before, trying my best in riding the storm - avoiding unnecessary risks.

Hair can wait.
Meeting with friends can wait.
Playdates for my kids can wait.
We have had months to prepare for this. We knew it was coming.

No, I don't really paddyanne, I only mentioned it because some of us were castigated for mentioning that we'd recently had haircuts enough to last in case we had to self isolate.
Not intentionally or for that reason, I should add.
Had I not I could end up looking rather like an Old English Sheepdog.

No nostalgia here for reasons I won't go into, but trying to remain cheerful in the face of adversity is better for the spirits.

Growstuff, thank you for expanding on my point re:war.

Also, to expect the younger generations to just “buck up and war time spirit” seems odd considering the complaints here.

I dont get this harking back to WW11,most of us weren't around then and even if some were its a different time and people have very different expectations .My parents lived through WW11 ,my dad was in the navy all my uncles were in the forces some came back some didn;t There was never all this nostalgic good old days stuff about the 6 years of hell .Its very hard to understand nostalgia for hard times.

I'd place bets none of you would want that time back.

X post pinkquartz

Yes, sorry, it was tea and a line of gravy browning!

Don't worry, we already have contacted more vulnerable friends and associates to see if they need help, but apparently we are the 'elderly neighbours' who are being offered help.

I don't see anything wrong with talking about haircuts etc.

Even during the war women still tried to book their best - when there were no nylons they used gravy browning on their legs and painted a line up the backs of their legs.

Next door had an evacuee and she used to come into our house because it was all doom, gloom and misery next door although they had no-one in the Forces. Even though my father was away, my mother did her best to cheer up this young girl and share what meagre rations she had with her.

prattling really?
A little light relief from all the worries and the preaching.

During WW2 a lot of the coping was done by improvising. Like the line drawn up the back of the legs and the legs stained with tea to make it look as if they were wearing stockings.

And there was more community spirit, more helping each other out, at least in the parts of London where my family lived.
Of course it is nice to have a decent haircut but joining in to save lives might be even better.

I agree with you pinkquartz. There are loads of things to do indoors, if it comes to it. If people have a garden, it's the ideal time of the year to be in it, doing jobs.

Everybody on this forum has internet access. The world is their oyster - without even stepping outside the front door.

Why "Oh dear"?

I'm really not in the mood for such silliness.

I'm self-employed and don't have a partner/husband to [ay my bills. I rely on my work, which involves going to people's houses.

I've just spent hours over this weekend working out the logistics of doing my work online and it's been frustrating. I need the work and money to survive.

Although I'm not yet 70, I have a number of underlying health conditions and, of course, I'm anxious and have already been doing everything I can to self-isolate and be responsible.

I don't appreciate reading about people prattling on about their hair, eyebrows or leg waxes.

I often have to remain indoors, mostly alone, as I live alone for weeks or months at a time.
It is hard to so but
I can't believe that people are making such a fuss....I see it as my choice about my mental health and I can cope the best I can or not It is up to me to cope, a choice to cope.
I repeat it is not easy and yet if it helps the country to survive then it is the right thing to do.
A lot of blatant selfishness on this forum. People who have good comfortable lives seem unable to cope with not having their own way for a few months is shameful.

You are capable of staying sane while you are indoors. Most of you have gardens. You have the internet, TV and books and telephones.

My mother worked on munitions during WW2, A V Roes, she had her hair washed and set every week. She had the money to do it which she hadn’t had before. Morale is very important.