Gransnet forums


What's happening now. The effect of Corona Virus on the economy.

(25 Posts)
GracesGranMK3 Sun 15-Mar-20 18:24:42

I just thought this was a bit of a separate subject to the current threads. I was prompted to comment hearing that Scandanavian Airlines announced flights had "fallen off a cliff" and that they are going to reduce staff by 90%.

This was reported on BBC News and I don't mind anyone showing I misheard it as it sounds so extreme. However, on a smaller basis, I do know of a small firm that has closed, affected by the lack of flights.

Perhaps we should try and make sure that we flag where any such news came from just so it doesn't seem worse than it is.

Chestnut Sun 15-Mar-20 18:29:27

I am very concerned about the economy, in fact more than the virus. With no customers so many businesses will fold. That's why I believe the under 60s should just carry on as normal unless they have health problems. That applies to all countries otherwise we will go into global recession or even a depression.

Cunco Sun 15-Mar-20 18:33:29

I have not seen this report but it would not be a surprise. Airlines can been highly geared and need regular cash flow. I have read a report that the UK air industry is asking for government support.

The stock market has dropped like a stone on concern over the virus, anticipating company collapses and economic recession. The virus is not just a health issue. It will seriously impact the economy.

rosecarmel Sun 15-Mar-20 18:57:25

I think that lack of testing will be proven in the years to come to be 2nd to the virus itself that had the worse impact on the economy-

American economists that supported Obama's bailouts now agree that the bailouts were made in haste, empowered corporations and saddled Americans with financial burden-

You cannot ethically build wealth, benefit from the profits and then burden others with paying for the risks and failures your business suffers because you don't have any safeguards built into your corporation-

It's a massive part of the Obama legacy and a damaging precedence-

rosecarmel Sun 15-Mar-20 19:00:10

More proof of this is Biden endorsing Warren's bankruptcy platform-

paddyanne Sun 15-Mar-20 19:11:17

Richard Branson is asking for compensation for lost income from the British government and its not a few pounds!!
Maybe he'd like to get to the back of the queue ,there are millions who will be impoverished by being out of work or seld isolating or who actually get CV .

Mr Branson is already( earning) receiving vast amounts of cash from deals he's done with Downing street .Let his own pocket take the strain this time!

varian Sun 15-Mar-20 19:20:19

This table shows the extent of testing for coronavirus in different countries as of 9th March, six days ago.

The UK was not near the top of the list but was still doing a reasonable number of tests. Since then it seems that this country has given up testing except in hospitals.

I was shocked to hear a GP who phoned a radio programme say he was unwell and couldn't even get a test for himself.

The government and their advisors now have no idea how many people in the UK have the disease. What a shockingly incompetent government we have. No-one who voted for them should ever vote Tory again.

Daisymae Sun 15-Mar-20 19:27:32

varian - it is truly shocking. south Korea are doing 10K tests a day. The WHO suggests that without testing it is not possible to know where the virus is and how its spreading so you cant manage and plan. It also mean the published figures are not reflecting anything much.
The economy is taking a pounding. A lot of people are going to lose their jobs, hospitality, retail, customer service. I think it will take a generation to recover when all this is history. But we will recover, although the world will look a different place.

growstuff Sun 15-Mar-20 19:30:09

So what's the alternative rosecarmel? Let the devil take the hindmost? What Obama did was implement Keynesian economics, which is how the US got itself out of the 1930s recession. Some countries care about their weakest members and the communities they live in.

Washerwoman Sun 15-Mar-20 19:34:14

Sorry but why waste money,time and vital health staff now testing.There can be false negatives .If anyone has a suspicion or the start of symptoms ie.temperature,sore throat,dry cough self isolate immediately.Err on the side of caution if you've had contact with anyone with symptoms.Let the NHS staff crack on with actually nursing and treating those increasing numbers ill enough to warrant hospitilisation.If you're self isolating and your condition is worsening seek medical attention.

growstuff Sun 15-Mar-20 19:37:38

I agree with you paddyanne.

The UK (and much of the world) was already teetering on the brink of a recession. There is absolutely no doubt that now that there will be one. The real test will be how it's managed and whether people see through the likes of Branson. The government will maybe remember the votes it "borrowed".

Historically, one benefit of WW2 was that people did see that society was dysfunctional, which is why, even in the midst of a war, there were plans for reform to education, the founding of the NHS and expansion of the welfare state and why Labour won the 1945 election, much to Churchill's dismay.

In some ways, it's a shame that industry carried on much as it had before with outmoded work practices and equipment.

growstuff Sun 15-Mar-20 19:41:54

I agree with you Washerwoman. I've just had my diabetes review, blood tests and medicine review cancelled by the GP. I've been having them for 30+ years and usually there's been no change in treatment. I'd far rather medical staff and skills are directed towards those who really need treatment. I know my body well enough to realise if there's something seriously wrong and I'll make an urgent appointment if I'm worried.

POGS Sun 15-Mar-20 19:43:54

It is common sense the economy world wide is going to tank and the UK will not avoid it.

Europe is now the crisis center and it will only take days /weeks for the economy to nose dive and to be honest I think that will be harder for the population in most countries to have to deal with.

It doesn't bear thinking about because that is more likely to see suicides, deaths, hardship than COVID 19.

I hope I am proven wrong, boy do I hope I am proven wrong.

rosecarmel Sun 15-Mar-20 21:29:26

It's simple math- Corporations failed, they got bailed out with microscopic payback rates-

On the other hand ..

Everyone else got handed insurmountable debt at considerably higher payback rates that led to increased bankruptcy, a process that not only costs but isn't forgiven for 7 years after filing is complete- Meaning consumers credit gets trashed which limits where they live, restricts qualification for loans, credit and banking, because they can't even open an account- End result, insecurity and homelessness or constantly on the verge of it-

It cost every American approximately $70,000 in lifetime earnings that will never be recovered -

In even simpler terms, the banks didn't break and they remained too big to fail- Americans broke and never fully mended-

Enough dust has settled, it's clear that the above is a large part of the Obama legacy-

rosecarmel Sun 15-Mar-20 21:38:45

Here's their logic:

You can get tested if you've been in the company of someone who tested positive-


growstuff Sun 15-Mar-20 23:11:52

So you would have preferred the corporations had failed? And people had lost their jobs?

It wasn't just Obama. It happened in the UK. Don't forget that some people make a fortune out of debt.

There is no reason why individuals should have been bankrupted, if the money had been lent properly and government bonds had been issued. People are queuing up to buy government bonds and the interest rates are historically low.

growstuff Sun 15-Mar-20 23:12:44

Where did the $70,000 figure come from?

rosecarmel Mon 16-Mar-20 01:25:38

growstuff, pretty much everyone across the board is currently supporting bailouts as a response to the financial impact from the coronavirus crisis-


The pyramid has been shifted- The people are at the top, corporations the bottom- And the people will not be burdened with the back-breaking interest that was placed on them after the last financial crisis- The last crisis where Obama placed corporations at the top nearly interest free-

This crisis presents an opportunity to unite the left and the right- It isn't time to revisit, retry and repeat the mistakes of a former administration by voting a representative into office from said former administration that crushed Americans into bankruptcy-

Vote for Bernie Sanders! Who was for the people, not corporations, to begin with!

growstuff Mon 16-Mar-20 01:34:55

George W Bush was President when Lehman went bankrupt. He had also been President when Lehman over-exposed itself to subprime mortgages. The Fed refused to bail Lehman out. If it had, it could have averted the 2008 global crash. It wouldn't have been transferring money from the taxpayer to a big bank, but a short term loan, which would have been repaid with interest. Even if Lehman had defaulted (unlikely) it had enough liquid collateral to repay its lenders.

What's your alternative to bailouts? Do you really not care about the people at the bottom of the pile, who will lose jobs, incomes and homes?

rosecarmel Mon 16-Mar-20 02:13:34

growstuff, you're talking about what could have happened and I'm talking about what did and is currently taking place-

Obama situated people at the bottom of the pile, resulting in loss of employment and housing, resulting in bankruptcy-

The bipartisan bailouts being rolled out this past week are vastly different in their arrangement, who they benefit and protect-

Davidhs Mon 16-Mar-20 06:57:08

Nobody is going to reconcile the polarized Republican and Democrat differences. Republicans hated Obama, Democrats hate Trump.
There is no middle way!.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 16-Mar-20 07:01:24

I hear that Johnson is regretting Brexit, telling his friends it should never have happened.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 16-Mar-20 07:25:10

Link to my post

growstuff Mon 16-Mar-20 09:58:37

The Fed has reduced interest rates to nearly zero and started a quantitative easing programme, which is exactly what Obama did.

rosecarmel Mon 16-Mar-20 13:54:10

There's really no need to defend Obama- His successes continue to benefit Americans and others around the globe-

There is a need to point out and discuss where he went wrong so we don't repeat it-

The next bailout is going to be colossal, placing the most vulnerable people at the top, not the bottom, like Obama did-