Do people want to be ‘vulnerable’?

Callistemon and others … it doesn't help that the NHS, the government and other sites all seem to use the terminology "vulnerable", "highly vulnerable" and "at (high) risk" differently. People have many misunderstandings and even those who should know better are giving out the wrong information. They really do need to get their act together.

There are approximately 1.5 million people in the highest risk group. It does not depend on age, but on medical conditions, which are on the NHS website.

Another much larger group of people are advised that they are "at risk", including those over 70 and with certain existing conditions. Generally they are people who are eligible for free NHS flu jabs. Originally, they were advised to be especially careful, to social distance, not go out unless necessary, etc. This hasn't changed, but the general population has now been given the same advice. There is now no difference between this "at risk" group and everybody else.

According to the government, the 1.5 million in the most vulnerable/high risk group are supposed to be receiving extra assistance in the form of food boxes and the local authorities are supposed to be aware of their potential vulnerability. Supermarkets were supposed to be informed, so that these people have priority when making online orders. The theory is that they are protected, so that they don't need to leave home, but it's obvious that in practice this isn't happening consistently. The bad news is that this group is likely to be "shielded" for some time yet and all the authorities involved need to start co-ordinating properly.

Gee thanks Marydoll x

I have “the letter”, I have RA and inject immunosuppressants twice weekly, I am shielding for 12 weeks, weather great so in garden daily and plenty to do, weekly food delivery free of charge from the Scottish government, downside for me is I can’t do my 3 times weekly swimming and it’s definitely affecting my joints in a bad way.

BTW Every single one of us has codes next to our name on the NHS database, indicating whether we are smokers, diabetic, carers, obese, have a heart condition, asthmatic, etc etc. It's how you're sent invitations for bowel cancer screening, diabetic eye tests, breast cancer tests, etc. Whether your code is accurate depends on the efficiency of your GP practice.

In theory, local authorities are supposed to know about those in both the highest risk groups and to contact people about help they might need, should they be hospitalised and need help with transport and care at home after discharge. The NHS has a list of volunteers who have put themselves forward to help those people, partly so that they don't stay in hospital unnecessarily and "bed block". Well, that's the theory, but it appears to be somewhat shambolic.

Why would anyone want to be in the shielding group?
I definitely didn't, but I am. I thought I might be sent the letter but I hoped I was wrong. One or two other people I know received one and a couple of days went by and I hadn't received one. I felt relieved and positive, then 2 days later there it was amongst my post. It upset me and if I'm honest it still does. It is one thing being classes as vulnerable, that in itself is surely a concern for every single person who is and especially for their loved ones but it's quite another being classes as in a group most likely to succumb (die) if you contracted the virus. Does anybody who has received the letter have a death wish? I don't think so, so why anyone would wantto be shielded is beyond my comprehension.
growstuff, I don't mean to be funny but the 1.5 million people figure is the one for England only.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

It must be different in England.

There are specific categories in Wales and it says nothing whatsoever about people who may be 'bed blocking'.
They may be bed blocking for reasons which are not on the list.

Callistemon No, I don't think it's different in England, but I know a couple of local councillors and they've been told that they have to upgrade their social care because there will be people ready for discharge from hospital with no home support. Hospitals aren't supposed to discharge people, unless they know there is support. There is also an issue with people actually getting home, which is why the NHS has asked for volunteer drivers. I don't think that's been made public, although it's been written about in social care journals. As far as I can tell, there are all sorts of issues with organisation and, crucially, funding.

I think informing the LAs about your medical details would be a breach of privacy and I do not thinj this is happening here.

We are given contact numbers if we wish to avail ourselves of the food box but the LA does not need to know medical details.

I think you must be thinking of a different category of patients, growstuff, ie those being discharged from hospital for whatever reason and needing care at home.

PS. It's already an issue which isn't being addressed, but the current situation is exacerbating it.

No, I'm not thinking of different categories. Local authorities have been warned that there is likely to be a need and they need to prepare themselves for it.

As far as informing local authorities about medical needs … what's supposed to happen is that GPs are sending texts or letters to all those at high risk (ie Group 1 and Group 2). The Group 1 people are sent a food box automatically, unless they opt out. Group 2 people are told to contact their local authority if they need help (or will potentially need help), which can't be provided by friends, family and local community groups. The local authority has a statutory duty to provide it. There's no breach of privacy because the "at risk" people themselves are asking for the help and allowing their names to be put on a list.

I received a phone from my LA in Scotland, to ask if I wanted a free food box, because I hadn't asked for one. I declined as I have family and friends who are helping with shopping.

I'm unsure about Wales, but Scottish and English Authorities seem to be operating differently.
People in Scotland received their letters two weeks after the English ones were sent.

I have also received a second updated sheilding letter, reinforcing the advice in the first one I received.
Then I got a follow up phone call from the practice nurse, checking that I had received my letter and that I knew what to do if I became ill.

I am being well supported, apart from getting online deliveries.

It sounds as though Wales has the same system. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

Apart from the online deliveries, it sounds as though you're being supported Marydoll.

Maybe you should lobby your MP/MSP to put pressure on the supermarkets to provide priority slots.

Although it doesn't concern me personally, I'm also concerned that carers are spending hours queuing. It wouldn't be rocket science for all carers to be able to use a click and collect service as priority. The supermarkets have apparently seen a 30% increase in sales since lockdown started and prices have increased, so they must be raking it in. Carers should be caring, not standing in queues.

My friend, the receptionist told me that the letters came from the Health Board in Scotland, the GPs did not send the letters. I have never received a text and I'm signed up for NHS messaging.
Lists were then sent to GPs, to advise who were sheilding.

Posters who are on biologics for RA, may be interested to know that research has shown that biologics have played a part in helping some of those who caught the infection to recover.

Fair enough CherryCezzy. I've heard it was an estimate anyway and there are actually more than 1.5 million.

I can understand that it wouldn't have been pleasant receiving the letter. However, presumably you already knew your medical condition. I'm not sure you would really have preferred not to be told that you are especially vulnerable and ended up seriously ill. I think many people would have said "why didn't somebody tell me?"

I'm in Group 2 ie high risk but not very high risk. I've known right from the start that I have a significantly higher risk of being seriously ill than average. I haven't been contacted by anybody, although in theory I should have been. I'm not really bothered either way because I decided for myself weeks ago that I'd by extremely cautious and have organised home deliveries from local suppliers and managed to get one Tesco slot, which is arriving next week. I haven't left the house for weeks. I even have a "hospital bag" packed, ensured that people have house keys and have a note in my purse of emergency contacts. Now I can just get on with my life, knowing that I'm doing/have done everything I can.

Marydoll In England, the letters for the most vulnerable also came from NHS central HQ, based on the information submitted by GPs. The GPs, however, are responsible for communicating with "at risk" ie Group 2 people. England and Scotland are using the same systems.

Callistemon I know you know and I'm a bit baffled that so many people don't seem to understand.

growstuff, I have friends and who are high risk, are self isolating, but have heard nothing from GPs.
That includes my granddaughter.
Can I ask please, what your source is? I would be interested to read it. Thanks

I have Asthma, but have not received the 'letter'. Nevertheless, I am not going out, my partner is doing the food shopping once a week.

My 90 year old Mum does not have any health issues, and has not had any contact from anyone in authority. She is self isolating, and my DD is delivering her food shopping. I am concerned though that there maybe others out there of a similar age who have no-one. If my Mum was in that situation she would have no idea who to contact.

I have had texts and the dreaded letter. If anyone would like it I am willing to donate it. I do not want to be either vulnerable or shielded. I would love to go out, pick up my own shopping, in fact I decided yesterday that if I am told to stay in for another year I will just go out and take my chances. My life has already been on hold for the last 18 months and I am not getting any younger.
Btw the lady who rang me from the LA told me the government had instructed the LAs to contact the shielded to see if they needed assistance.

To receive the sheilding letter, you need to be extremely clinically vulnerable. My interpretation is that if you get the virus, you will probably die. That was reinforced by two different GPs and a rheumatologist, I was in contact with.

I was told to sheild, weeks before the official lockdown. My GP advised me not to attend my daughter's wedding. ?
It didn't matter anyway, it was cancelled due to lockdown. , so hopefully I may still see her marry.

If you are high risk, as opposed to extremely, clinically vulnerable, I think you are absolutely doing the right thing, by not going out! We all want to live through this.

In Scotland, the LAs only contact you if you sign up, using the Sheilding text messaging service. You have to text your CHI number to a dedicated number and then receive an automated response, which says you are now registered.
It is after that, that you receive a call from the LA, asking how they can support you.

Different countries in the UK, appear to have slightly different systems in place.

Marydoll The county in which I live has established a "welfare services group", financed by the County Council. It has a Facebook page and is responsible for giving information and putting people in touch with volunteers, but not actually sending letters or distributing food boxes. There might be one in your Mum's area NannyJan.

A couple of weeks ago it was announced on the Facebook page that GPs were trawling through their records and are supposed to be contacting (ideally by text) their patients recognised as at high risk (not vulnerable).

I haven't received anything, but some other people with different GPs have received a text. I asked what was in the text and, basically, it gives the advice which I think everybody knows now and a phone number (of the welfare service) if you don't have any support and need it. From what I know, they put you in touch with local volunteers. As I know the volunteers anyway, I'm not at all bothered I haven't received anything.

Somebody else from my GP practice asked when she is likely to receive anything and was told to be patient. Apparently, NHS England has sent the lists of very vulnerable patients to the GPs and told them to go through them and check that nobody has been left off this list. Until this is done, my guess is that identifying and contacting the next most vulnerable group is not the first priority. The GPs are bogged down with admin work and, I suspect, finding that their records aren't as accurate as they perhaps should be.

I've been thinking about the confusion between high risk and vulnerable. I guess somebody can be at high risk (through age and/or medical conditions) but not necessarily vulnerable, if you have good social support from family and friends.