Tory election donors call on Boris Johnson to end 'harmful' lockdown

Didn't mean to paste that with no message!

Thankfully, at this point at least, BJ agrees we are not ready to come out of lockdown.

I will financially suffer for this. My employer will cease paying me when I don't return to my job 11th May (overseas). BUT my health is more important.

uk.yahoo.com/news/boris-johnson-statement-coronavirus-lockdown-082616546.html

All those newly created ICU beds don't come with built-in staff. They need at least four nurses a day each (probably six) to work shifts looking after the patients occupying them.

Taking the 1918 flu pandemic as a pattern, free association of the public is likely to cause a second wave of 10 times the number of infections as the first wave. That would take ten times the nursing staff. How would that impact on staffing for patients with other conditions? Which would you prioritise, CoVid patients who can't breathe alone or the rest? How about the nursing staff? They'd be run ragged - and they are just as likely to get it as anyone else or more so, many will be off sick. Hospitals without staff are just dormitories for sick people.

I will repeat what I just said - The virus has not gone away, it will be around for people to catch when they meet up again, and there are more people who have not yet had it than those who have. A second wave will be far worse than the first."

The reason that " . . people with other conditions . . become emergencies or critical before diagnosis or treatment" just now is because they are not visiting surgeries or even phoning the surgery or other organisations for advice. This is their perception but in fact, IF they reported their symptoms, they would be listened to. We keep being told NOT to put off seeking treatment for other problems.

How about publicising even more widely and loudly the symptoms which COULD lead to serious illness AND WILL BE TREATED even though the emphasis is on the virus - cancers, heart disease etc - so that no-one thinks "It isn't that bad, I don't want to add to the burden of the NHS at this time." How about a circular to the public from the government or from GP practices, outlining some of the things that SHOULD be reported and will not be dismissed as minor?

FlyingSolo I'm the same as you. It really is not easy, but if everybody (and I mean everybody) stayed indoors, the virus would have new hosts and really would disappear. As it is, that won't happen, so it will linger for years, which probably does mean that those at greatest risk of complications will have to self-isolate for many months or years to come.

Lifting lockdown now would lead to chaos with thousands of new cases and deaths and a total lack of control. The NHS really would not be able to cope with new cases, never mind cancer and heart patients.

I'm reasonably happy to trade a few months now for (hopefully) another 20 years of life.

Anybody fancy a nice Domestos and Tonic to start their day with a zing?

They say they have no new cases in NZ. BECAUSE of lockdown. A friend has messaged me today.

Notanan2, thank you

Flyingsolo

I don't know what the answer is, I really don't. However, isolation and loneliness are eventually very damaging to a person's health. I currently haven't seen anyone at all for over 5 weeks and it is nearly 6 weeks since I went further than my bin. And there is talk of social distancing lasting all year. Sometimes I am managing ok, sometimes like this evening I don't know how I shall cope one more day. I am trying my very hardest to be well which considering my health history is no small task but I am really really trying. But if I continue seeing no one I don't know what state I will be in by the end of this year.

Even Taiwan is looking like it'll have a big outbreak.

They held it back by focusing on boarder controls, but have had scares re people who might have slipped through the net already, and once that does inevitably happen (like with the scares theyve already had) it'll spread like wildfire because of their high density housing..

Similarly singapore, not only have their controls widened their already wide social divides, but it isnt looking good as a long term strategy. They were initially hailed as a success story, but that was a short term win. Long term its not looking so good.

Sweeden is looking like its having similar numbers to locked down countries with similar densities

America: low density states Vs high density states... degrees of lockdown seem less significant than density and affluence

We're not preventing CV cases here. We're just spreading them out. And increasing deaths from other causes in the process.

Take your pick!
When you look at the numbers and compare that with density, the stricter lockdown ones arent doing all that much better than others that are comparable by density.

Lockdown postpones. It doesnt reduce. It hasnt "stopped" CV anywhere!

Could you be specific with the countries you're referring to notana2?

People with heart problems cant access specialist supervised exercise because of lockdown. Meaning they are in worse shape to fight off CV when they get it!

something like that growstuff.

Countries with strict/early lockdowns are still getting hit. Just later

Countries with lesser lockdowns are now balancing out with similar longer term numbers to countries with similar densities who did strict lockdowns.

Lockdown puts people at risk of being more likely to have serious complications when they do get CV because their long term comorbidities arent being managed as well as they would be out of lockdown

I guess you've signed up to volunteer in your local ICU or a care home, notan. Well done!

You're thinking in terms of killing thousands of people for unproven gains.

Some sections of the NHS need to get a grip. I've been affected by not having routine tests, but what I've experienced so far is gross inefficiency from my GP, which actually means they have less time to treat their patients. I spoke to the practice manager about it (eventually) and was told it couldn't be changed. it was "management". Doh!

Lockdown has always been about flattening a curve.

A flattened curve does not = less cases.
Its the same amount of cases spread out over a longer time.

Lockdown was never about stopping CV. Just spreading them out

20,000 IN lockdown. Can you imagine the death count OUT of lockdown?

People won't have the opportunity to be killed by austerity. They'll already be dead.

People are dying at over double the usual rate from domestic violence because of lockdown!

You may well survive CV but youre not that likely to survive an attempted murder!

Small ops become big ops.
Treatable cancers become untreatable.
Mental illnesses become crises

Lockdown kills.

People won't have the opportunity to be killed by austerity. They'll already be dead.

We need to stay in lockdown. Then maybe some of those other critical cases can receive some treatment.

It doesnt work that way. Waiting for people with other conditions to become emergencies or critical before diagnosis or treatment may put a bigger strain on the NHS than Covid ever did!

Youre thinking in false economies

notan Cardiac rehabilitation could easily be done online. I've been through it and thought most of it was a waste of time. The "advice" given is available elsewhere. People could be issued with blood pressure monitors and followed up, if necessary. Exercises could be done via Zoom or some other online platform. I really, really hated being forced to go to cardiac rehabilitation "classes" every week for eight weeks just to be patronised by nurses and dieticians calling me "dear".

Well austerity kills too.

A long term lockdown will be killing people for years to come.

It needs to end soon. And signs are it probably will.

Strikes me, it isn’t science that’s being followed, but the almighty pound.