Should lockdown for the over 70s be extended when it’s relaxed for everyone else?

Good post mygrannycanfly
However, I have to say, if I get sick, then morally it does not put me in a difficult position.
We have been in lockdown for 6 weeks and still people are getting sick. Should they feel morally guilty for expecting care?
I have taken care of myself all my life in an attempt to stay healthy. I will take Sensible precautions to avoid the virus, but should I catch it, then I would absolutely expect to receive care, and not feel guilty about it.
The burden they place on care is already being heaped on the over 70s, adding to this burden of guilt we are expected to feel remorse if we believe continued lockdown for this one group is wrong

Masquereader

Totally agree
With not as much life left, quality of life becomes more important.
I prefer a shorter life seeing my grandchildren
than a longer life under house arrest lonely boring depressed not able to eat nice things not seeing family going round the bend with lonely boredom is it really worth it? why live longer just to live like this? etc....

AND what about our right to choose? I think it should be up to us. To impose house arrest on people for being over 70 is against the Law. It's unconstitutional, definitely not British!

And you could teach her how to use it over the phone. I have memories of trying to explain over the phone to my deaf nearly 90 year old father how to send an email - my OH was in stitches by my side as a shouted instructions!

My point was that a "one size fits all" solution is not equitable. I accept that with age my body will degrade but to select everyone over 70 for special treatment is bad science when I could walk down the high street tomorrow and pick out many people below 70 in much poorer health than me and at greater risk than me.
We have all made life choices - some good, some bad - why do we expect to protected from the consequences?

There is a difference between lockdown and social distancing. People in a shielded category have to lockdown for 12 weeks (so far); but over-70s who are not in that category can go out as long as they practice social distancing. Personally I am practising something in between - I go out for walks etc., but have been having shopping delivered.

As to getting bored - that has not happened yet. I am finding interesting things to do: researching the lives and music of women composers, preparing music for when my singing group is able to start again, doing a bit of zoom home ed with my GC, making a rug, doing the garden etc.

mygrannycanfly - is there something your Mum is interested in about which you might be able to find books for her to read. Or maybe this is her moment to get a laptop!

Seakay I know but they are not hefty like in some countries in Europe and Australia, they are not a deterrent.

My Mum is 77 this month, perfectly fit and healthy with an active, busy life volunteering and helping with grandkids..

She’s really suffered in spite of having lots of daily phone calls from her children. She’s gone a bit potty with loneliness and boredom. She’s never been interested in technology, or watching TV. She’s got a bit of arthritis so can’t do crafts

She hasn’t received a letter and has been doing her own shopping once every 5 days and going out for daily walks early in the morning. To take that away from her would be inhumane - I have tried to dissuade her from shopping.

If you can manage lock down, do it and well done. My OH is totally happy, so am I, so are my children. We’re flattening the curve. But have sympathy for those for whom this is an ordeal. We’re all different.

To answer the question, I don’t think an age criteria is fair and is probably discriminatory. There are lots of younger people who are just as at risk as the over 70’s who are making their own decisions. I don’t think there is any reason to take that autonomy and discretion away from the over 70’s.

However, everyone has a duty to not burden the NHS with avoidable illness. It puts lives at risk and no-one wants that on their conscience. Deciding to ignore guidelines puts one in a very difficult position morally should you get sick.

I feel really stressed at the thought of lockdown continuing for over 70s. How long for? Without an end in sight, it's just a black hole. I live alone and have had no real human contact for two months now. Just occasional phone calls and skype for which I'm very grateful. I suppose it will depend on how the lockdown is eased. If the under 70s are allowed to go back to pre-lockdown life, pubbing, clubbing, eating out, cinemas, theatres etc, then it will be very hard to bear. We over 70s need SOME kind of hope to keep going, or are we just going to be kept in lockdown until something non-covid takes us and gets rid of the problem we pose?

davinia some more science "The amount of antibodies produced in response to an antigen is less in older people, and the antibodies are less able to attach to the antigen. These changes may partly explain why pneumonia, influenza, infectious endocarditis, and tetanus are more common among older people and cause death more often. These changes may also partly explain why vaccines are less effective in older people." taken from www.livescience.com/35908-aging-lowers-your-immunity.html

BlueSky there are already fines - this article reporting on them from the 26th March www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/coronavirus-lockdown-uk-arrest-fine-police-rules-latest-a9428196.html

4allweknow I know exactly how you feel. Dodging everyone and it's pretty obvious that if I didn't move than they definitely wouldn't. I'm 50 is it an ageism thing? Well fortunately key workers come first.

The comments above on immune system degradation in the elderly are misleading.
Exercise has a huge impact on the immune system. That's why I have exercised daily all of my life. If obese couch potatoes , smokers, chip eaters and boozers are worried about their susceptibility to the virus then that's just chickens coming home to roost. Let them stay in doors but don't expect me to live by their rules.

Here is some science.
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2095254618301005

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2684080/

I have become so disillusion with society and the lockdown. People where I live seem to have this entitlement mentality that they are basically carrying on as usual apart from children not going to school. Going out for a walk is stressful. Adults and children of all ages on footpaths in streets and the woodland walk where I live, guests who has to climb a banking to get out of the way? Guess who has to walk on the road when mums with pushchairs stand chatting on the footpath. Guess who has to move out of the way or wait when in a store for 1 item. You will be correct on all counts. So I feel I will just join the melee and if I am a carrier well whose fault is it? The older generation has been swept aside, yes our immune system may be less than perfect but that surely should mean we are at the top of the queue for testing rather than the bottom or waiting until we are ill and perhaps warrant a test. It is an entitled society we live in.

I am 65 so on the border.

I am still working from home so very glad I am able to do that.

I won’t be going out and about much anyway if we have to wear face masks...the idea of that is really abhorrent to me and would undo any pleasure I would get from things anyway.

So until restaurants, theatres etc are back and running, I will continue to live very quietly, have daily walks weather permitting and enjoy the garden.

I thought the idea that the over 70’s should self isolate was to save the NHS the extra work.

Actually I am appalled by the ageism this pandemic has thrown up....people in care homes were like ‘lambs to the slaughter’, as has been described.

Although I am a great supporter of the NHS, in my more cynical moments I wonder if this has exposed a gaping wound about older people being in the back of the queue when it comes to prioritising care.

Please those who think this isn’t fair or that you can’t live this way try to reframe your thinking.Its really difficult but will help us to get through this.

Yes it’s difficult not seeing friends and family and going for lunch or to meetings but this isn’t going to last forever. The positives are that you are protected and your family aren’t worried as they would be if you were going out etc. The fantastic doctors, nurses and paramedics are protected from you infecting them should you need help.

It’s awful but humans can and will survive it.

Every day you can still look outside and see something to be glad about. You can write letters to your friends and family perhaps making up past quarrels? You can talk on the phone and as we now know it’s going to be a long one you can start to investigate ways to pass the time that are fun and diverting. Painting, sculpture, cake decorating, wood working even repairing something broken. Buy something vintage for a grandchild and restore it carefully - The Repair Shop has lots of tips.
We are all in this together and we must all be supporting one another.

Unispiringcowkeer that is so sad that you are feeling that way. No one is a drain on the economy. If you can laugh, smile and be fed you are rich.
Have you anyone to talk too?

Totally agree with Pollyperkins comments

My husband has terminal Prostate Cancer which has spread to ribs spine and Pelvis .He was told last year he has only a 40% chance of living four years.His first reaction to the idea he may be in lockdown till next year was'This is the best I'm ever going to be,and I'd be wasting quarter of it not doing the things I've dreamed of or seeing the people I love, by next year I'll probably not be able to drive or walk very far ' . Now quite frankly he is depressed,though so far we have stayed totally isolated since shielding was put in place , I can see his point .

Jillybird your arguments are strong and I have no wish to put anyone else at risk. I’m sure there are lots of people out there who won’t hear what I’m saying, but for those of us who have learned to live with a tendency towards depression these are challenging times. I’m glad we’re having this discussion.

just wondering whether any of you have subscribed to the Scoop magasine for your grandkids. did they enjoy it. my grandson will soon be 11yrs.

I think we cannot just concentrate on ourselves. Older people are more likely to need intensive care and that puts a strain on the NHS and uses resources that might be needed for people of working age. Better to keep in, keep well and accept it is for the best. The more people who contract the virus the more it will spread. We have to look out for others as well as ourselves

Marieeliz You and me both. This is what this is really about for me

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

My Health centre said they hadn’t got time to add anyone’s names to the Vulnerable list if they didn’t get a letter, so I do not see them providing a further list.

There isn’t going to be a sudden complete lifting of all restrictions! It will be phased.

What is it you want to do after lockdown? My main activities won’t be happening for ages yet. I don’t see choirs being able to meet- too many people breathing together in close proximity, and probably no concerts to rehearse for . I don’t see church congregations getting back to normal in a hurry.
I certainly won’t be rushing to do my voluntary advice work, confined in a small interview room with a client.

Would you feel safe going to a cafe, pub or restaurant, when they re- open? Or going to the cinema, theatre?

Even when when restrictions are lifted, not everywhere is going to be open. Many pubs and restaurants will have gone out of business.

I have just come back from the Health Centre after a blood test. ( routine, but rescheduled ). It was very safe. I shall feel far less safe when there are more people around, especially as they will be ones who will be allowed to mix freely, at school, work, shops, buses.... that time will be much more risky than anything we might venture to do now.

People over 70 are not being told to stay at home in France. Macron was told it was discriminatory. I just hope people of any age will be sensible, not take unnecessary risks with their own health or that of others.