Should lockdown for the over 70s be extended when it’s relaxed for everyone else?

"End of"? Hetty58 Rather aggressive and childish, don't we think? Can do without that, thank you.

We are doing it for OTHERS not just ourselves and not primarily ourselves.
We are more likely to succumb and NEED A HOSPITAL BED!
That’s the issue.
I get so cross with the ‘John Humphrey brigade’.

Is mental health not an issue?

In France, as far as I know , there is NO age restrictions in the new regulations for May 11th .
Maybe Grandma Moira could say where she got the information from

Growstuff I've never said I personally would go against whatever is made mandatory! Just saying that that would be the only way to stop people going out if they are not allowed to, and hefty fines like some places in Europe and Australia!

No! Some of us still have jobs and Grandchildren to help out with.

That makes sense! I haven’t fully understood the term herd immunity before. Thanks!

People say this isn't a life but it is up to you to make it a life you can enjoy

Growstuff, a lot of your points are valid but not when you say it doesn’t matter what the government says. It does, cos they set out the guidelines most of us are trying to follow.

No problem, BlueSky. Quite a few of you will die .

Puzzler That's why people over 70 aren't automatically being asked to shield themselves. There is a list of specific health conditions on the government website.

People over 70 and those with certain underlying conditions are at higher risk of being affected badly, so are being strongly advised to take precautions such as staying indoors.

There's a lot of confusion because the terminology and advice has changed. Even the text sent to people in this second group is confusing (I've had one).

There is no denying that age and health conditions are risk factors. It doesn't matter what the government says. The virus itself isn't listening.

Ideally, every single person would be socially isolated until the infection rate is nil. Obviously, that's not possible, so there has to be a balance. It's because some people want to tip that balance that the general environment remains unsafe for the most vulnerable.

This won't all be over after 12 weeks for anybody, including those currently "grounded" for 12 weeks. Places like care homes and sheltered housing for the elderly probably need to create protective bubbles. At least people would then be able to circulate within the bubble.

Anyway I doubt we will be 'forbidden' as such, if they want to actually forbid all over 70s to leave the house (except for food, medication and exercise) then they will have to fine us!

Hetty, I hear what you say. But chatting about age with my doctor he said that people age at different rates, so to judge by age alone seems too simplistic?

BlueBelle - DD2 has bought 12 new jigsaw puzzles and had them sent, so I’ll be alright indoors for a good while ?

Puzzler61, please understand that 'fit and healthy' is not much defence against this. Our immune systems change with age, regardless of our lifestyles.

Interestingly, smokers (who you'd think would be dropping like flies) have some protection. They are only half as likely to be hospitalised or die. There is current research into nicotine patch therapy.

'Normal' rules don't apply with Coronavirus. Symptoms are most similar to altitude sickness and still, very little is known about it.

I'm not a scientist or a medic, but read that it's about our T-cells which decrease with age. T- cells, so called because they originate in the thymus, attack any virus and if we don't have enough of them, the virus will overwhelm the immune system. We can boost our immune system but not increase the T-cells.

It's not about whether you're prepared to risk your own life, but whether you're prepared to risk causing the deaths of others who love you or who care for you when you are so ill.

Yes, people have been recovering and leaving hospital after days on respirators, but I know of one 77 year old who after 16 days in an ICU has needed intensive medical support to learn to breathe and even to walk again. He's due home soon and will have 4 sessions of physiotherapy per day at home.

Some of us clap each week for the NHS workers who give selflessly day by day and yes- many have now died as a result of doing their job. Why risk their lives too?

Oh gosh puzzle you are going to be in a loooong time there will probably be no vaccine before next year, then who wants to take the chance with something so new and so hurried and who knows how effective it will be it really can’t all hinge on a vaccine
I m not a rule breaker and if over 70 s are ordered to stay in obviously I will but if there’s a choice I would rather not and as most of you will all be in your houses still, I won’t harm any of you will I ? and if you re worried about me taking up a bed as none of the nightingale hospital have barely been used even at the very height of the virus I m not expecting it to be overrun by the few old folks that prefer to get on with their limited years left even if in a different way than expected
I m quite understanding that I probably won’t be able to return to work, visit the theatre or cinema, or a restaurant but if I can have a picnic with a few friends (social distancing of course) I will do so
Th acts just me and not suit everybody

It’s all very complicated and I’ll just stay in - other than a walk - until a vaccine is available. I hope us “oldies” will be near the top of the list for getting the vaccine, after NHS, Carers, and key workers.

I would be interested to see medical evidence to show percentage of risk for groups within the over 65’s population.
I’d be surprised if a fit, healthy 70 yr old (just for e.g.) has a weaker immune system than a smoker or an obese person (also for e.g.) of 50 yr old. We have been told previously by Experts that obesity is a bigger killer than cancer.

The government is going to save quite a bit in pension payments

There are and always has been a large number of (who I imagine are 70 or over) coming in the supermarket every week.

There is a chap I know he is well over 70 comes in most days for a loaf of milk just a bits of something, he wears a mask, he has lung problems, I would imagine copd type illness.

His wife has lung problems. but yet! he comes in most days.

He tries to come near me and lifts his mask up to talk to me!!
I used to chat to him at school, when I see him approaching I move well away into another area.

Im afraid telling this man the dangers, is like talking to a solid brick wall. and yes he could have people doing his shopping for the family.his dd and gc live with him and his wife.
But unfortunatlty he is one of the "I won't get the virus brigade" !

No, it doesn't discriminate on age grounds. Anybody can catch it, but the effect discriminate on age and underlying health conditions.

Not everybody over 70 is "shielded" anyway - only those with specific conditions which make them particularly vulnerable.

Has anybody been prosecuted on age grounds for going out?

Given the statistics, it sounds like very sound advice to stay at home, whatever the "rules" state. I'm not over 70, but I am resigned to staying at home and not having personal contact until a vaccine is found, which will almost certainly be over a year.

I don't think saying "it's age discrimination" will somehow make much difference if I'm infected and badly affected.

According to what I've read, we should also be asking all overweight men to shield but encourage smokers (although the evidence that any protection provided by nicotine, is outweighed by weakened lungs if covid does get in).

It seems covid can trigger an extreme immune reaction so perhaps those with weak immune systems are safer.

Those who have had BCG vaccination are pretty safe too. And, of course, anyone who lives to tell the tale after trying an injection of bleach will definitely be OK, although one would question their mental state.

Trying to prove your point about mortality rates by using a set of statistics when scientists still don't understand the disease is a bit like taking the rules of cricket and applying them to rugby.

Yes, it makes sense to protect the most frail in our society but we don't really know who they are as far as Covid19 is concerned. I'm willing to wait my 12 weeks out (to flatten that sombrero!). But no, I want better reasons than anyone has provided so far to stay locked up just because I was born before 1955.

I'm hoping good science will get us all out of this mess.
Defiant, spoilt, selfish and ignorant I may be, but I'm not the only one questioning arbitrary decisions based on date of birth.

The Warwick University study makes a compelling case for over 50s to be confined to home in a lockdown, yet nobody so far has made comment.
Let's just concentrate on incarcerating the over 70s, after all nobody under that age catches the virus or indeed, passes it on. This is far, far too simplistic!! ElaineI you do know that most over 70s will never make it to a ventilator don't you. I have just been consoling my midwife niece, with a friend, a 40 year old, who has just died from covid19, and whose 43 year old sister is in ITU with the virus. All three are midwives so the majority of their contacts are certainly not 70 years plus. I think that family are truly devastated. This virus attacks all, it doesn't discriminate on age grounds.

Doodledog if you click on Hetty’s link further back, you’ll find answers to questions such as you ask.