So angry about this witch hunt

We might want to "go forward" but coronavirus might stop our advance.

Lockdown was a reasoned response to the public hygiene emergency. It is stupid of the Cummings clique to make lockdown not apply to them, as important people's viruses are as dangerous as anyone else's viruses.

Isn’t it now time to let this drop?

Yes strictly speaking he did break the guidelines. Some thought he was justified, others didn’t. Boris has supported him and is now, quite correctly, getting on with the extremely complex job of getting the country slowly out of lockdown.

Time to let it go and move on.

I don't want to have to drive to Barnards Castle to get me the best sort of eye test.

I think what saddens me is that you didn't even acknowledge I've lost a colleague more concerned with getting your point across. Speechless!!

Sorry to hear that.

Plus - if he really did predict it, how come we weren't prepared?

He is also a fraud - he made retrospective alterations to make it appear that he knew in MARCH 2019 that CoVid 19 was on the cards. That is not an invented slur - it can be researched (in the Internet Archive, or Wayback Machine)

Someone who will do that will cheat in other things! I wonder just what else he has had his fingers into?

Exactly Loislovesstewie. Society only works if we adhere to the rules. Without it we have chaos. Chaos now would mean hundreds of thousands of deaths.

We all need to stick to the rules.

Rowantree, exactly . If we don't stick to rules, any rules, then we end up with chaos. Let's all do our own thing shall we? drink and drive ok? Play music loudly all day and night because , well we want to? Steal anything because we just don't fancy paying for it? The list is endless isn't it?
Most of us don't do things like that because we understand them to be WRONG. If we do and we are caught then there are penalties .
He has been caught , there should be a penalty .
He doesn't even have the good grace to come clean and apologise.
He is an ill mannered ,selfish boor.

Just one more point. It is NOT 'up to him - his personal choice'. In this pandemic your 'personal choice' could potentially affect thousands. Someone , I forget who, said we should now stop thinking 'I' and instead 'We'.

Jishere I am so sorry about your colleague. Wnat an awful thing to happen.

Good morning Rowantree. Many thanks for expressing my own feelings and views so clearly.
I know it's hopeless of me but I simply can't accept Mr Johnson's expressed desire for us "all to move on from this"
It's shameful for a paid government advisor to behave as he did. It's even more shameful for our PM to continue to support him. Neither of them have apologised, rather they have denied and minimised.

No sympathy for him whatsoever.
He's arrogant and clearly believes he has an entitlement to interpret the rules in a way no one else has.
He went into work knowing his wife was ill, drove hundreds of miles when he was meant to stay at home despite having sister in law close by plus other government aides who could have helped out in an emergency. He insists he didn't need to stop (travel any distance with a small child and tell me that's even possible); that stuff about testing his eyesight is horrendous - why would you pack your family in the car and drive 30 km if you suspected defective eyesight? Not in DVLA rules, surely, if nothing else!
Media are media - they want the story sure, but so do we, and we cannot allow the government to be unaccountable for their actions when they are clearly contrary to their own edicts. That's called hypocrisy. Johnson isn't being loyal to Cummings; he needs him because he's pretty hopeless without him. Of course he wants us to 'move on'. Lesser mortals such as Neil Ferguson and Catherine whass-her-name did the right thing and resigned and they weren't part of national government. Unless Cummings resigns or is kicked out he's going to damage the credibility of the government (though it's doing a fab job of that anyway tbh) and to the fight against controlling the virus.

I do not believe it will be possible to implement a full lockdown again in the near future. Business would not accept it, the population would not accept it and the country simply could not afford it financially.

We are were we are now, and we must go forward from here whatever the situation.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Arguing that it was OK for Cummings to act like a mindless p***k because others have proudly announced that they were doing so just won't wash. To continue MawB's anaology, there are anti-social drivers who have no licence, MOT, or insurance, and don't observe the Highway Code. Does that mean it is OK for the Minister of Transport to do the same?

That's ok me neither I'm just telling you what it's like out there and lots have not listened to the rules and logic or common sense doesn't apply and in comparison I would say most GNs are taking low risks.
With out scare mongering numbers are low at the moment fingerscrossed they stay like that otherwise it's back to lock down and I know for sure who I will blame and that won't be a few GNs that have broke the rules.

I think what saddens me is that you didn't even acknowledge I've lost a colleague more concerned with getting your point across. Speechless!!

According to him, he was at work when his wife phoned to say she had been sick and felt ill - and perhaps this was the virus. He went home - and then returned to work. There is a rule that if you have been in contact with a person who has symptoms , which may be indicative of the virus, you should leave your workplace and isolate for 14 days.

He then drove his wife and his child for 4 or 5 hours, in the enclosed environment of a car, knowing that both he and his wife probably had the virus or were about to get it. If he had intended a relative in Durham to care for the child, that person/persons were at risk of contracting the virus. My understanding is that, as it turned out, he and his wife and the child stayed in a property on his parents' land - so how did this solve the child care element? And do you really think that driving for half an hour to another town in order to test your eyesight is a credible reason for, yet again, breaking the rules?

Initially, Cummings said he had not visited Barnard Castle and it appears it was only because someone actually took his car number that he had to admit in the end that he did go there.

How can anyone justify this behaviour?

Very well put.
You would imagine that everyone could see the logic of that.

I’m not going to argue Jishere because I suspect our views are so very divergent. However while I can only influence how I behave, it is not unreasonable to expect that where there are rules, others conform to them too. To continue my driving analogy I drive on the left, give way at roundabouts stop at red lights so it is not unreasonable for me to assume (or hope!) that those coming towards me obey the same rules, not their own made up version!
Unless I am in contact with them, what ever other grand choose to do is their business but we have a collective responsibility to the common good - without that it is the survival of the fittest and devil take the hindmost.
On that basis what you or others do does indirectly affect me.
I may not be in a position to legislate against it but that does not mean that I have to agree that it is right.

Iam64
Thank you for your reassuring post. I realise that both my daughter and her husband becoming so sick that they had to be hospitalised is remote, but obviously we feel that we would step in and care for the children in that case. It’s reassuring that Social Services would look first to the family. It’s against the rules, except for the caveat that it would be ‘essential.’
Thank you very much for your post, I know you were a Social Worker so you have the expertise.

I think Corona is like an std in respect of getting it.

It's not necessarily about what you do; it's about what the people you have contact with have done.

Mawb I get on a train I have to wear a mask in case someone sneezes or I sneeze although to my knowledge I have no virus symptoms. Not everyone wears masks.
No one can control anybody else's behaviour,
You can only protect yourself that's it.
So it's not going to be two ways because no one as a clue if the person who walks by has washed his hands, etc...
In the beginning one of our ladies died because someone spat at her, he was infected she had underlining problems.
How could anyone see that coming? Please carry on thinking that everyone is a law abiding citizen especially after Cummings fiasco! I would say lots of GNs breaking the rules are very low risks and I can't see how it effects you at all.

MawB that's up to them that's their choice. If they believe all around it's low risk then why point out what others are doing, just be concerned what you are doing

Sorry Jishere
Rather like road traffic accidents and the tango - it can take two
I can be a safe competent driver, obey the rules of the road, keep to the speed limit and do everything necessary, but if a stupid or drunk or incompetent driver swerves across the carriageway or drives the wrong way down a dual carriageway or loses control of their vehicle, I may be killed.
In the same way I can observe all the guidelines there are, but if a bus driver, courier, shop assistant or well meaning neighbour who is contagious - even if asymptomatic- sneezes or coughs on to me, or has not washed their hands before using the keys on an ATM machine or before touching
a door handle - the virus will spread.
No two ways about it. I am not being alarmist but unfortunately unilateral vigilance is not enough.

My thoughts exactly, and if this is all too soon, well.. it doesn't bear thinking about.

Now track and trace brought forward 5 days. Don't suppose all these lockdown announcements are to deflect attention?

maddyone - I've been lucky enough to share similar moments with our 4 year old grandchild when they dropped off some essentials for us.
Please don't worry that there is any chance of your grandchildren being taken into care if the worst happens and your daughter and son in law contracted this awful virus at their work. It's more than likely your daughter or her husband would phone you, or other family members to step in.
If for some reason, social workers became involved.
The law is clear, family members are to be approached if there is any risk a child can't remain with her parents. Of course, there would be the risk you or your husband may contract the virus but if the option was grandchildren living outside their family, I expect you'd do what any of us would do, and take that risk.
I remain furious with D Cummings and his wife. Their actions diminished the stay home, stay safe, protect the NHS.
Yes good posts janipat.

To correct my error earlier in the thread I said Brexiteer when I actually meant Remainer. Lack of sleep I’m afraid - probably through worrying about DC - JOKE!