AIBU No going back to school I’m furious.

Woodhouse I think we are in agreement. I agree that people from outside of education can prove excellent on a governing body, but that those who dont listen to the experience of others are of concern. I would have no confidence that the person currently lecturing us on crb checks would be able to do that.

"If in September the Covid-19 situation throughout Britain is no different to the situation as of present would you propose that the schools remain closed indefinitely?"

I would hope that by then there would be Government plans and - most importantly - Government money available for putting in place :-

construction alterations (a chance for the construction industry to get contracts) that would give twice as many separate rooms, all with individual toilet and washing facilities and storage for pupils' outerwear and belongings and access to the outside without sharing corridors

a pooling of all the experience which had been gained by the various schools and education authorities around the country while they have been working both in schools with the children of key workers and online supplying, supervising and marking (!!!) educational materials for children at home

seminars where those combined skills and researches can be widely disseminated to those at the chalkface

a recruiting drive for more staff to teach and/or suprvise all the extra groups

training or retraining for the extra staff that had been recruited, including in how to implement the information that had been accumulated about effective ways of managing children ( children not adults) in an extended emergency situation

national re-awareness of the importance of distancing and segregation in a pandemic, and of hygeine measures, to an extent that no-one thinks that it is OK to risk getting a highly infectious disease unnecessarily, under the pretext of "I'm fit and healthy, I'll take my chances" when they really should be thinking of other people sharing their choice of risk with them.

All this takes joined-up thinking, which doesn't seem to be a feature of our current government.

Grandad1943

If I wasn't concerned about your knowledge schools before, I am now.
all our staff are CRB registered so that any organisation our employee's visit can quickly seek out such history and gain clearance.

CRB changed to DBS checks in 2012.

I quote: To work in a school, Ofsted requires that you apply for an enhanced DBS check online and complete it. An enhanced DBS check is also a requirement for anyone working in a voluntary or contract position within a school.
Normal practice in schools is to have these checked and renewed every so often,

How often does your company renew its checks? Any school you approach should be asking you this.

Governorship: I talked of governorship earlier on and mentioned that one of the best governors we had was a self employed builder. He wanted to know and help the community where he lived more.
At the last OFSTED the school had when I was chair, the lead inspector asked to talk to 3 governors. Myself, a parent gov and a community gov, Due to the training and involvement the other two had with the school, we impressed him with our knowledge that we had a mention in the report. He aimed questions directly at the other two not just me. Our parent gov, by the way, was a dinner lady in the school.

I note your interest and the commitment to your business as well as your age. Age should be no restriction and as I said, the self employed builder was a valuable asset to the school.

Please do not taint all primary schools with the same label as the one you have given the school that has not taken up your offer.
"the education establishment does not wish to engage with anyone in the above respect, but rather remain in their established comfort zones, regardless of the loss of education to the children they are supposed to be responsible for."

The bottom line is that the schools have to go by the government regulations. And they are working very hard to try and do this.

If I have understood correctly there are posters who feel schools should be using the risk assessment expertise of private companies. Schools are bound by the government rules; they simply have to do as they are told. In the reams of paperwork I have waded through in the last few weeks I have not seen any suggestion that the government wishes to encourage the involvement of private companies or has given any guidance as to how this might be achieved within current safeguarding guidelines.

My personal opinion is that the government's response to the virus was too little too late and we should not have finished up in a position where schools needed to close. But, we are where we are, and we just have to do our best.

Having said all this, I know for sure that schools are working very hard to help the pupils not to fall behind, with imaginative teaching methods and late nights for them. I commend their dedication.

Grandad1943 I will try to explain withan example. You have a brother and sister in a school, the boy has learning difficulties but his behaviour is ok.The girl has behaviour (she loses her temper, spits and throws things and sometimes needs to be restrained ) and learning problems . She has been excluded from 2 schools. An older sibling is in care and abuse is suspected. The children live with their mum who is disabled and cannot leave the house. Dad is not permitted contact. A support assistant is designated to care for the girl in school and a volunteer from Barnados takes the children to and from school, but both of these are classed as vulnerable. How much of those circumstances would your staff need to know to work out how those children could be accommodated and what would the school and social services be prepared to reveal, when a lot of the information is sensitive because of legal processes?

Education "establishment" now trying the tactic of diversion in this thread having lost all credibility in the debate.

growstuff, if you take the trouble to read through this thread you will witness that the school approached my company and were informed that we do not normally undertake what we view as public safety work as opposed to specific commercial workplace safety which we do undertake.

When they explained their requirement we did agree that we would assess if we could assist them and weekend working is normal practise for our Assignment teams.

Therefore if they cannot provide anyone to meet our staff at the school on a weekend or now have a body who can attend on a weekday, so be it, for as I have stated it is not work we normally undertake and in fact were only attempting to help them out as of their request.

Here's something to keep you occupied:

Classrooms are a minimum size of 55 sq metres. Older classrooms might be bigger, but old buildings have their own challenges.

Get a piece of paper and draw a 7 x 8 rectangle (choose what scale you like).

Using the same scale, draw and cut out 30 circles with a radius of 1 (diameter 2).

How many circles can you fit inside the rectangle?

trisher, we ourselves as an employer ensure that all our staff are CRB registered so that any organisation our employee's visit can quickly seek out such history and gain clearance.

I do not understand where you state in your above post, "all the circumstances that might make it difficult to take some children back into school to outside bodies".

The above makes no sense whatsoever.

It could be that the educational establishment in question has found another provider with a better understanding of schools and more flexibility about providing its customers with a suitable time for meeting. Maybe they've got wind of your attitude towards schools and teachers.

If it's part of an academy chain, I'm amazed that it hasn't found a single provider for all its schools, if it doesn't already have the expertise inhouse.

Grandad1943 it has just occurred to me that due to confidentiality and safeguarding it would be unlikely that any school would be able to fully disclose all the circumstances that might make it difficult to take some children back into school to outside bodies so possibly your company couldn't even be considered without considerable paperwork being undertaken first. Of course I may be wrong and all your staff may be police checked.

WOODMOUSE49, many thanks for your thoughtful post @12:12 today. I would very much like to join a board of school governors but at the age of seventy seven, I am still very much engaged with the company myself and my wife launched in 2003.

However, should I ever manage to retire prior to "kicking the bucket" I will keep your advice very much in mind and possibly act on it. ?

Callistemon
Apologies for errors in my last comment to you. Using mobile at the moment. I’m more accurate on a larger keyboard.

Callistamon

Yes the do. Force if habit from me saying governor.
The link is to recruit governors and trustees.
www.nga.org.uk/Governance-Recruitment/Be-a-school-governor-or-trustee.aspx

Galaxy
I can only talk about the school where I was chair. I was the safeguarding governor. Every school has to provide safeguard training for ALL. We did all 3 sessions in the evenings as well as during the day to suit governor’s commitments.
In all honesty a governor with no knowledge of child dev or education become the best governors. Open mind! Training is excellent and the chair will arrange as many visits into school as needed.

Ellianne, I believe that your post @11:39 today does go to the root of the FULL REOPENING of schools problem.

In the case the school that has enquired of my company for assistance, we will not require to have knowledge of how those children are educated, but only understanding of the process involved in that system of education.

From the above, we can then draw up risk assessments in regard to all the hazards that are Covid-19 related within that system which would, of course, include the normal behaviour of children within the School.

A risk assessment drawn up by a fully qualified person in safely not only demonstrates all the hazards and dangers there can be in any system of working but then through risk reduction measures also implemented by a qualified person will bring forward safe processes and systems of working within the parameters laid down.

It is the job of trained and qualified persons such as the above to work alongside those whose employment tasks require safety assessment, and in that provide solutions to the hazards encountered.

Of course, it would seem that the education establishment does not wish to engage with anyone in the above respect, but rather remain in their established comfort zones, regardless of the loss of education to the children they are supposed to be responsible for.

One of the best governors we have had was the local vicar.

Do Academies have boards of governors?
I thought that they did not, they have trustees.

boris stupid laws .why the facemasks after the virus is fading fast. surely this would have been better at the start...my grandchildren been back at school a month now .ok 3 days a week.and its because the have educational needs .theres 12 kids in a class...tables apart... they happy .....

Callistemon
Very true. One of the best ones we had was from a self employed builder who lived locally. No children at the school but wanted to know the community more.

I was just expressing concern that the governing body he applied to might be the one I am on. It was posted in fear

If they accept that their knowledge of child development and safeguarding is limited, and that they can learn from those more experienced in those matters, otherwise it's a disaster.

Galaxy.
“My governing body”?
You can be a governor at any school.
I applied to all 3 primaries in my town.

You can be a governor on more than one school too!

I think those from outside the educational sector can bring valuable insight and experience to the role of school governor.

I have posted a few times, mainly replying to those who know little or nothing about how primary education ‘works’.
I’ve not looked at this thread for just over 24 hours. On Friday night I had a call from a friend. Her daughter is a new head in a junior (KS2) school and has been working 7 days a week and extensive hours (av 14 hours) talking to everyone involved with the school. The school is in a ‘socially deprived’ area with a high proportion of children with SEN. Thus means a large number of staff and visiting professionals in the school.
My friend, like myself, have read the guidelines primary schools received.
My friend’s daughter already had some plans in place for a full return but the government’s guidelines threw much of this out of the window.
I could spend the next hour listing all the concerns this head has and all solutions she has discussed with her staff but it’s pointless to do so on this thread - I now realise.

I spent yesterday on and off the phone with my friend talking about her daughter and how the government’s plans for summer schools.
When I went back into this thread this morning, the last comment was from luckygirl. Thank you so much for your words. Reading her comments, I would suggest to some that if you have such an interest in education and feel changes need to happen then do something constructive.
I put this to grandad above all.
Here’s a link. You appear to have the time and say you and your company have the answers Become a governor. No pay but a very rewarding job. I’ve been one and a Chair of governors

www.nga.org.uk/Governance-Recruitment/Be-a-school-governor-or-trustee.aspx

Well GRANDAD ??