Exam results

What I'm hearing is that colleges with large cohorts have tended to have their grades taken down rather than centres with small numbers. If that's the case, there's something wrong with the algorithm. Of course, it will put large all-ability sixth form colleges at a disadvantage.

Modern Language grades have, on the whole, not been taken down because usually the entries are small. I've just been reading about a French teacher whose results weren't adjusted, but a high percentage of the maths, science and English results in her school were. Those subjects have much higher numbers of entries. It's a high-achieving state school in an affluent area, by the way.

tes

Daisymae

Funnily enough private school pupils have managed to increase A and A* grades by twice as much as comprehensive schools, these results are just skewed.

Where did you find that information?

is there a vote of confidence in the education minister?Or are only Scottish politicians held to account? Just curious .

Funnily enough private school pupils have managed to increase A and A* grades by twice as much as comprehensive schools, these results are just skewed.
Yes, Daisymae, no great surprise, the results are skewed.. I can see at least two possible reasons here for the above.

Funnily enough private school pupils have managed to increase A and A* grades by twice as much as comprehensive schools, these results are just skewed.

So agree with Gagajo's post, final two paragraphs particularly. Okay, my g.son has got the very good Uni place he wanted, but there will so many others from that local College who will now having to completely re-assessing their futures, and just because their College is not in a 'good area'

icanhandthemback

We found the difference between Private school and State was mainly the accepted level of behaviour along with the class sizes. My son was probably going to do well wherever he went as he was bright and conscientious but when he couldn't even start work in the State School until the class settled down (which took at least 15 minutes of each lesson) he started to hate school. Video footage of the class convinced us to spend our savings to pay for good behaviour.
The whole ethos in his private school (and my sister's, I went to State School) was a "Can Do" and looking to where you wanted to be at 25. Detentions (rare) were on a Saturday with the head so parents were aware and rather put out when they had to get their child to school at the weekend at stupid o'clock. All the young people were expected to take part in Music, Drama or Sports and these happened at the weekend as well as after school. State School staff just don't have the same energy with large class sizes, after the rubbish they have to put up with during the week and the lack of time given to do their admin. They work just as hard and are mainly good teachers, just without the support of a good system.

Within 3 months of identifying a congenital difficulty, my son had been assessed and strategies put into place to assist. Four years after my other son had the same thing happen (I paid for the assessment in the end) the State School hadn't got to grips with it because they had so many others who were in a worse place. His grades were severely impacted.

Young people from the Private system, no matter how good their school is, are expected to get better grades for University. My son was expected to get at least a grade higher in each subject and was based on 4 A levels rather than the more common 3. Some people might say that levels the playing field a little but it would be far better if we could look to giving all our children a decent education from the start.

I am not sure how you can fairly assess this year's cohorts but the Uni's will know where the problems arise so will take that into account.

I more or less agree with you. I've worked in both systems and to be honest, prefer state school. I like to work with children that I can REALLY make a difference with. Those without the benefits of parents who can buy them a better education.

But having said that, as you've pointed out, teachers in the state system kill themselves with work, if they do it really well. Intervention sessions before school starts, meetings 3 or 4 days a week after school. And all of that is before any planning (the thing that takes HUGE time - everyone thinks it's marking, but it's planning) or marking. One of my full-time state school teacher friends has ONE free lesson a week in school time for planning and marking. ONE. A very good full-time teacher will be putting in 70 or 80 hours a week. I used to, but I'm too old to work that hard now. In a private school, there is more planning time built in.

However, I've also worked in private schools that have turned into behaviour support schools, that accept the children of wealthy parents that other, more academic schools, won't accept. And in some ways, those places are worse, because wealthy parents don't accept their child may be at fault, it's ALWAYS the teacher or the schools fault. They pay and they have huge expectations.

I completely agree about all children deserving a decent education. If private education didn't exist, the elite would be forced to improve state schools, instead of seeing them as training for factory-fodder, working class children.

Those are the children that NEED the good grades right now. Wealthy / middle class children have a lot of great life chances. Those working class students often rest totally on their grades and they could be the difference between a reasonably paid profession or a lower paid job, later in life.

Iam64

I suspect some kind of class action with a group of pupils instructing lawyers. Today's results are unacceptable and very distressing for so many pupils, parents and teachers.

What grounds would they have?

The fact is that estimated grades would have produced many more higher grades than has ever happened in the past. Overall, the A level grades were 2% higher than last year. Some pupils achieved higher grades than they would have done, if they'd taken exams, but they're not newsworthy. Cambridge International has reported that if it had accepted estimated/predicted grades for IGCSE, there would have been twice as many Grade 9s, which can't be right.

The problem is that averages and totals mask some individual anomalies at student level. Any class action would have to prove that the algorithm itself was flawed.

It's been a nightmare for pupils this year and I feel so sorry for them, but I honestly don't know what the solution would have been.

icanhandthemback - The whole family now think that my eldest son (the one that got that scholarship) has a lot of autistic syndrome tendecies. Never had any sort of assessment and he has led a happy and useful life without that. Excellent job, beautiful wife, lovely house. He turned 50 yrs last year........ So it is better that he never even knows what we all think
On the other hand, my youngest son went straight through the state system. Seemed to have considerable problems with English and other subjects - to the extent that I actually asked, when he went to Secondary school that he not do a second language, but concentrate on English - this was refused and he was given extra lessons in writing - to no perceivable improvements.
It was after he went on to 6th form college for A levels, having just about scraped in, largely on the basis of the fact or his older siblings having done well there. During his first term there, I actually sent off samples of his writing (which looked like that of a first year infant), to a Professor at Sheffield Uni (where one of my daughters was attending). This professor was doing research in dyslexia. Did not think my son had this as he could read fluently.
She came back to me with the word "Dyspraxic". First time I heard of this (1993). I passed her letter over to the 6th Form College and could not believe how quickly and appropriately they acted. Within days, my son had a meeting with an Educational Pyschologist and even she was taken aback when she asked how he managed to take notes as he could not even read his own written notes. He told her he just tried to memorise things! A computer was given to him to use at lectures/lessons, etc. Turned out he was very highly intelligent and coasted easily past his A levels with excellent results and, prior to that the Uni he chose so much wanted him there, they actually held a special meeting of their Senate to offer him (for time ever for that Uni) a 3 x E entry (really meaning Unconditional).
No private school could have acted better or quicker than this 6th Form college in an East London borough.

westendgirl I suppose it takes one to know one. But in fact all of this government fit into that category. It's difficult to think of one of them that hasn't been "promoted beyond their ability".

westendgirl

How many of you are happy with Gavin Williamson saying that the danger is that pupils could end up promoted beyond their ability. ?

I saw that and had a chuckle. It must be quite difficult to be that bad when the bar is so low.

My daughter and g.son have now been invited to be interviewed by our local BBC news service. Should be interesting!!!

Aaaaarrrgh - talk about kettle pot black. Mr Williamson is a prince amongst princes and princesses in Mr Johnson's government, promoted well beyond their ability

How many of you are happy with Gavin Williamson saying that the danger is that pupils could end up promoted beyond their ability. ?

I suspect some kind of class action with a group of pupils instructing lawyers. Today's results are unacceptable and very distressing for so many pupils, parents and teachers.

Franbern, I am so sorry that your Grandson did not get the grades he obviously deserved and I know that can really play havoc on a person with ASD. I am pleased he got into University though. My SIL went to Southampton Uni, my stepson has just completed his degree there and it is a good place to go. I hope your Grandson will be given the support he needs there. I know that my SIL had great support from them as he is Dyslexic and has complex PTSD.
We might disagree on Private Education but we can probably both agree that, regardless of grades, your grandson has done himself proud with the adversities he has faced.

We found the difference between Private school and State was mainly the accepted level of behaviour along with the class sizes. My son was probably going to do well wherever he went as he was bright and conscientious but when he couldn't even start work in the State School until the class settled down (which took at least 15 minutes of each lesson) he started to hate school. Video footage of the class convinced us to spend our savings to pay for good behaviour.
The whole ethos in his private school (and my sister's, I went to State School) was a "Can Do" and looking to where you wanted to be at 25. Detentions (rare) were on a Saturday with the head so parents were aware and rather put out when they had to get their child to school at the weekend at stupid o'clock. All the young people were expected to take part in Music, Drama or Sports and these happened at the weekend as well as after school. State School staff just don't have the same energy with large class sizes, after the rubbish they have to put up with during the week and the lack of time given to do their admin. They work just as hard and are mainly good teachers, just without the support of a good system.

Within 3 months of identifying a congenital difficulty, my son had been assessed and strategies put into place to assist. Four years after my other son had the same thing happen (I paid for the assessment in the end) the State School hadn't got to grips with it because they had so many others who were in a worse place. His grades were severely impacted.

Young people from the Private system, no matter how good their school is, are expected to get better grades for University. My son was expected to get at least a grade higher in each subject and was based on 4 A levels rather than the more common 3. Some people might say that levels the playing field a little but it would be far better if we could look to giving all our children a decent education from the start.

I am not sure how you can fairly assess this year's cohorts but the Uni's will know where the problems arise so will take that into account.

I wonder how the government thinks all of this is helping to alleviate the mental stress children have suffered during the epidemic?

Reading of a pupil who was predicted straight As. Being awarded 2 bs and a U. All university places have been withdrawn. How much upset and a real sense of injustice can this be causing? This is not going to go away quietly. I fail to see a quick or fair resolution. GCSEs next too.......

I wonder if the school beginning with "F" is the same one attended by a former tutee of mine two years ago. I'm not going to be unprofessional enough to name it, but it sounds like a similar scenario. He hated it and only achieved the A levels he needed because his parents spent a fortune on tutoring every day during the holidays.

Nothing to do with results, but on a personal note here. Southampton Uni is where my daughter and Son in Law went. Different departments, my daughter had taken a gap year to go travelling, in her first term she threw a birthday party, and the girl she had become very friendly with in Halls, brought along a boy from her department. He and my daughter hit it off straight away - and it is their eldest son who will be going there now. He is even going into the same halls as my daughter was in then - although re-built and updated a lot in the past 25 years. They are still good friends with that other student and she only lives a mile away and has already offered to be nearby support for my g.son. Funny how things turn out.
On the question of private schools, my eldest son was given a fulls scholarship to one (Ellianne....beginning with F). It was a difficult decision for me to make, my husband was totally opposed to it - but the local authority was in total education melt down in the year he was transferring from primary school. Due to me having a very serious accident an being hospitalised, my husband accepted it.
My son did well there, but as he grew older he began to resent the way that school separated off their high flyers (like him), most not scholarship boys, from the remainder of the pupils. He did have several clashes with the Masters there!!! However, they did ensure he got the A levels required, but he has never kept up any relationship with that school since he left.

Shocking news from Franbern on the grade allocation but excellent news that her grandson's University place is no unconditional. That should tell us a lot.

Doodledog thanks for an excellent summary on what University education is about. One of mine did English Lit, the other Drama and Performance. They followed the subjects they loved and both enjoyed their time at University. They learned so much more than the academic study. Additionally, they demonstrated to future employers or MAcourses that they had staying power

trisher, I'm sure you're right about the reason A level grades improve. The other contributory factor is the fear instilled in young people that their A level grades will dictate their life paths

trisher

It is difficult to see how any real historical evidence can be acceptable when there have been such huge changes in A levels in the past few years. Arguably the increases per year could be attributable to schools adjusting to the new standards and directing their teaching to improve results (something teachers are supposed to do anyway).

The exam boards are going to publish their 150 page algorithm later (today?). It will be up to heads to scrutinise it and work hard out if the algorithm has been applied unfairly to their pupils. I don't know what the solution is. The exam boards have tried to retrofit assessment to systems which don't exist. If the algorithm has been applied accurately, they will need concrete examples of pupil work to appeal.

Unfortunately, mock exams are done in all sorts of different conditions and for different purposes. The government seems to think that all pupils sit a complete mock (last year's paper) some time in December/January, but that's not what all schools do.

Ellianne

Well, growstuff, I suppose everyone has their own opinion on private schools. I am very much on the "inside" as you call it and I can tell you we don't set out to achieve academic excellence in every child. It is the all round, value added education which parents buy into.

Ellianne It's not an opinion about private schools and I am/have been very much on the inside too. Statistics don't lie, nor do my personal experiences of tutoring pupils from private schools or marking GCSE papers from the most prestigious and well know private schools in the country.