Exam results

Lancslass1

The cynic in me thinks that teachers might inflate grades .
It amazes me that nearly every year more and more students are gaining A* grades.
It is my opinion that the idea that everyone should go to University and study "subjects" that will be of no use to them when they leave is pointless.

How many people do you here tga5 are doing "Media Stsdies for example?
I watch University Challenge.
In the"old" days students were studying Maths,Physics,Geography etc.
Now it is Spinning and hand loom weaving with ballroom dancing.
(Well not quite!)
I once listened to a programme on the radio and the person interviewed was a professor of Pop Music.
I kid you not.
Words failed me.

I find this attitude really depressing. Education should not be confused with training for a job - they are different things - and an insistence that all students should learn ‘useful’ subjects would result in the UK becoming even an even more philistine nation than we already are.

A degree in Art, Literature or Classics (as examples of many other non-vocational subjects) teaches students critical thinking, research skills and numerous other things that stand them in good stead in the workplace, such as self-discipline, independence and time-management.

Subject knowledge is often gained ‘on the job’ in any case, as it is company or role-specific. It is the more general skills that mark out a graduate, and these are gained whether the student studies music (pop or otherwise) or whatever.

Without relevant subject knowledge, and without knowing the content of a particular course it is impossible to comment, but I would be very surprised if the pop music degree (or was the professor responsible for particular modules on a more general degree?) were not as rigorous as any other subject.

I would hate to see education become the preserve of the elite (what do you think of Prince William’s Art History degree, for instance?) with vocational training the only option for the rest of us. A civilised country should educate its citizens in cultural subjects if its culture is not to be reduced to the lowest common denominator.

Well, my, g.son's results WERE downgraded from the A's he was forecast (and achieved in his Mocks). Appeal will go ahead, school is as furious as he is - HOWEVER, also discovered that, yesterday, the University changed their 'A' needed in Chemistry to Unconditional. So, his place there has been confirmed. He is still a very unhappy lad. My daughter says she has aged ten years in ten minutes, as they had to find appropriate phone nos. etc.
At least we can have his 20th birthday meal out tonight knowing he will be off on his chosen Uni course in September.

Exactly Doodledog. One of my ambitious students said to me that her mum had told her a degree would train her to be a critical thinker. Not train her WHAT to think, but train her to be able to critique and pull ideas, theories and problems apart and look beyond the obvious.

I'm pleased he got the place he wanted. It must be a huge relief.

I feel so sorry for this year's students.

Franbern - there can be no justification for this downgrading if his mocks were A and his predicted grade A. But thank goodness he has his uni place. How has this been decided? I do feel for these students today.

The exam system is never totally fair - there are those who do well in exams, and those who find them hard, but have the knowledge. Coursework marking is subject to bias. Some people may be unwell on the day of the exam. Whatever system there is cannot be totally fair.

What we have this year is a problem for the last-minute-crammers who coasted at mocks time.

I remember taking one of my degree finals exams with the worst period pain I had ever had (and it always was bad) - I can visualise that day now - sitting in the middle of a huge hot gym with orange light filtering through the fanlight above me as I struggled not to be sick.

Doodledog has got it right. Thank goodness there are people who understand what education is all about.

Great post Doodledog. When’s I had students who moaned (at age 14 say ) they would never need my subject I always told them they couldn’t possibly know that ! Job applications for example, some subjects studied can be “another string to their bow”,

Franbern

Well, my, g.son's results WERE downgraded from the A's he was forecast (and achieved in his Mocks). Appeal will go ahead, school is as furious as he is - HOWEVER, also discovered that, yesterday, the University changed their 'A' needed in Chemistry to Unconditional. So, his place there has been confirmed. He is still a very unhappy lad. My daughter says she has aged ten years in ten minutes, as they had to find appropriate phone nos. etc.
At least we can have his 20th birthday meal out tonight knowing he will be off on his chosen Uni course in September.

So glad you came back to tell us the good news about your grandsons uni place!
Sounds like the exam board made a poor decision though.

Franbern Congratulations to your son! I know this isn't any consolation at the moment, but the uni place is more important than the grades. Enjoy the celebration!

I found out yesterday how the boards will use the mock grades in appeals. They won't necessarily accept the mock grade at face value because their argument is that there is no consistency about mock marking, which is true.

What they'll do is look at other pupils who achieved the same or a similar mark in the mock. If there's one who achieved a final grade higher than your son, they'll then upgrade him, so it still depends how the school did as a whole. There are some other considerations, but it still won't be as straightforward as the headlines are seeming to make out it will be.

Again - well done to him! He can feel proud of himself!

I am very concerned about the idea of the results of the school as a whole influencing decisions about individual grades. You can have very bright children at "sink" schools and they would be disadvantaged.

Of course there should be no "sink" schools - the fact that they exist is a disgrace.

One head is quoted in the Guardian today as saying that the results are the worst in the history of the school with 49 percent of results downgraded and asking how that's possible. How indeed???

Luckygirl That's a bigger issue and so true.

I'm not at all sure what the exam boards should have done. Accepting teachers' predicted grades would have resulted in 38% of entries being graded at A/A*. The previous highest number of A/A* results was 27%. Clearly, some schools/teachers have overestimated. The problem is to find out which ones.

I don't know how the system works, but I imagine that this must clear the decks for the private schools who have not been adversely affected. Would that be correct???

Daisymae

One head is quoted in the Guardian today as saying that the results are the worst in the history of the school with 49 percent of results downgraded and asking how that's possible. How indeed???

But not all schools are in that situation. There was actually an increase of 2% in the number of A/A*s grades awarded. Some schools must have played the system.

I don't know how the system works, but I imagine that this must clear the decks for the private schools who have not been adversely affected. Would that be correct???

Yes, Daisymae, that is correct. Their track record will help boost them.

Daisymae

I don't know how the system works, but I imagine that this must clear the decks for the private schools who have not been adversely affected. Would that be correct???

Not necessarily. Not all private schools achieve high grades. Some of them will have been adversely affected. It appears to have affected the schools which historically don't achieve high grades - they're not all state schools.

The exam boards asked all schools to rank their pupils in order and to estimate grades. They then compared the grades which would have been awarded on that basis with what the school has historically achieved. So, if in the past, a school has achieved 10% A*/20% A/30% B (etc) in a certain subject, the grades have been adjusted to fit that curve.

They also looked at the national picture, so that the total number of grades awarded was similar to the last few years and crunched all the stats to achieve something similar. In fact, the grades are better overall than they were last year.

Daisymae

I don't know how the system works, but I imagine that this must clear the decks for the private schools who have not been adversely affected. Would that be correct???

Daisyme - you are so correct in the assumption. so very unfair at every level this year.
Think my g.son will regard it as a challenge to be sure to get a first in a few years time with his Uni degree. But so frustrating for him. He has continued working at his chemistry to be ready for the Uni course all through these last months at home.

Franbern I am sorry yo hear about your grandson's grades, I know you and your daughter had been worrying. All the work he has done wont be wasted though, and from what you have told us about him previously he is a determined young man and will rise to the challenges at his chosen uni.
Yes it is somewhat unfair private school grades will be protected, you and I both know how brilliantly C of L, B.......ts, F ....t and Ch....l do in their exams. They will have swept the board with the top grades.

Private school grades won't be protected - only those which achieve high grades and they don't all.

Cambridge has one of the highest performing sixth forms in the country - and it's a state college. My town also has a sixth form which regularly achieves higher A level grades than the majority of private schools - and it has a non-selective intake.

I wish people would get it out of their heads that all private schools are high achieving. They really are not. Some are high achieving because they select their pupils and have better resources, but some are appalling from an academic perspective. I regularly receive requests from parents who think they can throw even more money at a problem by buying private tuition and I sometimes hear stories from "insiders" about what happens in private schools, including some of the most prestigious.

Well the head of Wolverhampton Grammar was not a happy person on the today programme this morning. Her results had been downgraded considerably.
Why do you think the Private schools should be treated differently ?The results have been reviewed by ,Ofqual( not the boards) supposedly to get standardisation . Ofqual is going to publish the algorithm used, apparently 150 pages long next week!.

Luckygirl

I am very concerned about the idea of the results of the school as a whole influencing decisions about individual grades. You can have very bright children at "sink" schools and they would be disadvantaged.

Of course there should be no "sink" schools - the fact that they exist is a disgrace.

As is the way the academy system 'rasises' the level of these sink schools, by expelling every problem child and just keeping the ok ones. It definitely happens. An academy chain school I was at briefly (couldn't hack it) permanently excluded over half of its pupils then allowed the head teacher to take the rap and sacked her.

Well, growstuff, I suppose everyone has their own opinion on private schools. I am very much on the "inside" as you call it and I can tell you we don't set out to achieve academic excellence in every child. It is the all round, value added education which parents buy into.

Ok, GagaJo, sorry, maybe the choice of the word "protected" was wrong. It is just that private schools fall into the category of schools which statistically achieve higher grades.

It is difficult to see how any real historical evidence can be acceptable when there have been such huge changes in A levels in the past few years. Arguably the increases per year could be attributable to schools adjusting to the new standards and directing their teaching to improve results (something teachers are supposed to do anyway).

It is difficult to see how any real historical evidence can be acceptable when there have been such huge changes in A levels in the past few years. Arguably the increases per year could be attributable to schools adjusting to the new standards and directing their teaching to improve results (something teachers are supposed to do anyway).
Insightful comment, I kind of agree trisher.