R number up, new lockdown threatened

Sadly FarNorth I don't think the government does have much understanding how it's affecting individuals and communities.

When the s*tstorm of Brexit hits mainly the same communities which will suffer most from the Covid fallout, I really do hope that the people who "lent" the Conservatives their vote see them for what they are.

Think back to that last week before lockdown!

People were taken by surprise. They'd read about Italy, but blamed Italians for living together in multigenerational households and being in the habit of hugging each other. They didn't think it could happen here in the UK.

People were worried about getting their hair done and legs waxed and stripping the supermarkets bare of toilet rolls and pasta. I wonder how many people were infected in those last few days in their desperation to do things which weren't very important.

The government has said that it delayed lockdown because it thought people would tire of the restrictions. I don't understand the logic of that. Sure, people did tire of the restrictions (and some people didn't stick to them anyway), but tiring of them a few days earlier wouldn't have had the same effect which delay did.

Many people just didn't take it seriously and they had very poor role models ... and, yes, people were worried about losing income.

......^but there was nothing to stop people going into their own lockdown if they thought that the Govt were leaving it too late. Can't we take personal responsibility any more^

Many of us did just that, but it is commonly accepted that cancelling Cheltenham and that football match could have saved many many lives in the first weeks.

Grammaretto: what I find very chilling is the number of people holding up Sweden as an example of a country handling the pandemic sensibly. Even my hairdresser the other week said she couldn’t understand why we had to go into lockdown given that Sweden hadn’t and their handling of the pandemic had been more successful than ours.

"A government spokesperson said the document “reflects a responsible government ensuring we are ready for all eventualities”."

Trying to avoid these eventualities would be good too.

Well silversurf count me out of your theory that the economy is more important than lives.I'd guess you haven't lost anyone during the past months.Sadly thats not the case for many of us,my family have lost 12 people ,family,friends families,workmates the son of a good friend people aged from 34 to 88 .I'd prefer us NOT to lose anyone else thank you.The economy will recover in time we cant have our friends back

www.itv.com/news/2020-08-23/dossier-reveals-worst-case-scenario-if-no-deal-brexit-and-second-covid-wave-coincide

if second wave and No Deal collide - we will be in REAL big trouble

there was nothing to stop people going into their own lockdown if they thought that the Govt were leaving it too late.
Nothing except the certainty of losing their job if they did that.

Most people weren't paying close attention to how this was going in other countries and it was being played down by our government, so why would they decide to take that huge step into joblessness?

I hope that research is underway into how people of working age are being affected by covid, now that business is opening up again, and that local lockdowns can perhaps be avoided.

Surely we can exist without holidays for a year? I can't understand why so many people have already forgotten there is a pandemic going on.

The virus doesn't move about - it's the people who do. .

It may not be as bad for younger people to get infected but then again it might. The point is we don't know.
The long term effects seem to be damaged lungs, weakness and fatigue. (we know a young policeman who had the virus back in April and he is not properly well again)

Incidentally nursing homes in Sweden have been giving patients morphine rather than resuscitating oxygen. I am not sure I want to be living there right now.

mercatornet.com/did-covid-19-open-the-door-to-euthanasia-in-sweden/63962/

Living with uncertainty is a lesson we need to learn - along with disappointment.

The OP says I know more people will die So that will be OK then? As they will be mostly the pensioners or people already in poor health, the Government will save a fortune in benefits payments, etc. which will help the economy and mean more jobs available for younger people. Sounds like a good strategy, except if you (or your loved ones) are in the vulnerable categories.

I agree 100% maddyone. I isolated myself before anything was announced, but many people couldn't because they had to work, so they couldn't take personal responsibility.

We've also seen that some people found every loophole there was to get round lockdown or ignore it completely. The whole point is that it needed to be a collective responsibility.

We need to stop looking at sparsely populated Sweden (which most of the country is) and comparing ourselves with remote islands and concentrate on the situation we now have.

I truly hope that opening schools for all pupils works out well, but I'm not confident. I still have absolute minimum contact with anybody and I've made up my mind to review that at the end of September, when we know more about schools. It's affecting me financially because I can't/won't visit pupils' houses, but for me it's not worth the risk.

Absolutely agree with growstuff re lockdown. The UK is a very different kettle of fish than counties such as Sweden and New Zealand. They have smaller populations and more open spaces. The population of London is calculated to be ten to eleven million people, and the entire population of Sweden is about eleven million people and there are fewer than five million people in New Zealand. New Zealand acted very differently than Sweden and has had far fewer deaths or cases. Sweden could have had fewer deaths had they locked down for a month or two.

The only people who had the luxury of going into early lockdown were the retired or those who don’t or can’t work. Others had to go out to work, so without an officially sanctioned lockdown people didn’t have the choice to lockdown early. Therefore the suggestion that people take personal responsibility for their own lockdown is a moot point.

And yes, lockdown was a week or two late, lives would have been saved by an earlier lockdown, and a better track and trace system, and quarantine of all arrivals into the country (even better, closed borders) but we are where we are, and have to go forward making the best choices possible in order to keep healthy. Now is the time we can all exercise personal responsibility by wearing masks when appropriate, hand washing/gel, and social distancing.

silversurf who is proposing another lockdown?

According to an article in The Telegraph which I don’t take they now say the virus can live on frozen meat and fish for 3 weeks and they think that is why there have been further outbreaks in countries where there have been no cases for weeks.

Another article claims the virus has mutated to be less dangerous but more contagious.

I think we do need to get this country back to work and the economy going again and younger people don’t seem to have it so badly. With all the protests, raves, beach cramming etc. lots of people just think it’s all over anyway although it’s not. I guess you can’t live in fear for ever.

I for one, however, will keep safeguarding and stay in isolation As much as possible in my eyrie on the tree top, especially as another report says no vaccination now until 2022! Make your own mind up I guess.

Sweden has such a lot of space! And not many people to occupy it.

Life is lived outdoors, especially in the summer. Shops, cafes, public buildings are large and spacious. And they clean everything, including themselves, with a vengeance ?

Different culture.

Don’t get me wrong, lockdown was necessary, albeit at least a week too late (and we know who to thank for that)

......but there was nothing to stop people going into their own lockdown if they thought that the Govt were leaving it too late. Can't we take personal responsibility any more?

I did a "big shop", wearing a mask and socially distancing, at the beginning of March, and then went into lockdown. I am lucky, of course, in that I am retired, but I didn't need to wait to be told - I used my commonsense and looked at what was happening in China. I live on my own so it wasn't easy, but I have a number of health problems and made my own decisions.

Between January and June, 51,405 Swedes died, the highest number since 1869 when 55,431 died, partly because of a famine, and over 6,500 more compared with the same period in 2019

So presumably 6,500 deaths potentially attributable/ connected to the virus? 575 per 100k of population as compared to our 610 per 100,000 here B9exchange says - but without the catastrophic effects on the economy.
Don’t get me wrong, lockdown was necessary, albeit at least a week too late (and we know who to thank for that) but we fell woefully short in other respects-testing, quarantining incoming travellers and of course the care homes. Let’s hope we get it right (or less wrong) next time..

During March and the beginning of April, deaths in the UK were increasing exponentially. If there had been no action, we were heading for half a million deaths by the end of April.

You only have to look at any graph of deaths to realise that lockdown had an effect.

I just think it's a shame it didn't happen earlier because lives could have been saved. If the UK had got its act together on PPE and testing and tracing, even more lives could have been saved.

Sorry, B9exchange

I'd not read your post properly.

* Between January and June, 51,405 Swedes died,*

They weren't all dying of the virus though.

I believe the latest figures from Sweden are 5,810 deaths.

Sweden has a population one tenth the size of ours. It has had 85k cases and 5.8k deaths. Its graph shapes mirror every other country. They have had 575 deaths per 100k population. We have had 610 deaths per 100k population. Like every one else they had too many deaths in nursing homes. I would much rather have spent the last 6 months in Sweden, where life has continued relatively normally, social distancing, yes, lockdown, no.

I think there will continue to be local lockdowns, but I don’t think we’ll have another national lockdown. There may well be more countries that we require people to quarantine from when they return. The test and trace will hopefully improve further. The rest will be up to us, we can shield, or follow the instructions for avoiding illness ie hand washing, mask wearing, social distancing and so on.
And hopefully a vaccine.

This is from the independent a day ago.

Sweden recorded its highest death tally in 150 years during the first six months of 2020, the country’s statistics office said on Wednesday.

Between January and June, 51,405 Swedes died, the highest number since 1869 when 55,431 died, partly because of a famine, and over 6,500 more compared with the same period in 2019.

Hopefully no second lockdown, but a continuation of local measures put in place ( restrictions) in towns when necessary.

Sweden have not come out of this well. Where do you get that idea from.?