Facing a new lockdown, extend the bubble to two adult families?

growstuff

How would you define life-threatening? It's actually more life-threatening than many illnesses.

Would you just leave nature to take its course? If you did, hundreds of thousands of people would die unnecessarily. Is that what you want?

Cancer, approx 450 daily, Heart Attacks, approx 460 daily. Alzheimers - one if the highest killers of the elderly and Suicide one of the highest killers of the young. These and others - and do not forget flu and pneumonia all kill far more each day, every day, every year than Corona Virus.

Do we get daily figures on any of these broadcast? No...because they are always there. Death is not something that is new, it has not been invented by this latest virus.

Suicides rates are rising dreadfully, due to the severe problems caused by domestic and financial problems being caused by the current situation - that is mainly killing the younger generation.

Live always ends in death........ Something is going to kill us all of at some point.

Hetty58

I'm just amazed that so many people are hell bent on treating the rules/guidelines as a pic'n'mix.

Others seem to be in denial.

With 31,453,355 confirmed cases worldwide (a small proportion of the real figure) and 968,251 deaths (again underestimated) when will they realise that we're in the middle of a pandemic?

I agree with you Hetty. I sometimes think people imagine themselves in a court of law, pleading for mitigation from the judge before sentencing. The virus doesn't know if people are meeting others for worthy reasons or just to have a laugh together.

The "rule of six" is arbitrary, but there has to be a cut off somewhere. Incidentally, the "eat five portions of fruit and veg" mantra is also arbitrary but people remember it.

The statistics show that most transmission takes place in the home, either between household members or from visiting others or receiving visitors. The government is trying to minimise households' mixing and the "rule of six" seems a reasonable way to do that. If anybody can think of a better way to minimise the number of contacts people have, maybe they should write to their MP.

I'm just amazed that so many people are hell bent on treating the rules/guidelines as a pic'n'mix.

Others seem to be in denial.

With 31,453,355 confirmed cases worldwide (a small proportion of the real figure) and 968,251 deaths (again underestimated) when will they realise that we're in the middle of a pandemic?

Really? News to me. We have been in a bubble with my daughter and her partner. Thought that was absolutely acceptable. Slap my wrists. Oh well!

vegansrock

It was a group of home educators who objected to being registered a few years ago , which led to attempts to register all children not in school being dropped. So I guess they’ve only themselves to blame. They don’t want the restrictions of being in school, so can’t gather together in their own unregulated groups. If there’s a whole group of home schooled children then they’re not all at home are they? It’s sort of like a school. ..

Yes, as I said, it's a grey area. I guess it depends if a jobsworth wanted to make a fuss.

Personally, I'd want to ensure social distancing - better than happens in schools.

There are issues with these sort of groups, where unregulated teachers without a DBS are cramming loads of children round a kitchen table and calling themselves a tuition business.

How would you define life-threatening? It's actually more life-threatening than many illnesses.

Would you just leave nature to take its course? If you did, hundreds of thousands of people would die unnecessarily. Is that what you want?

Aepgirl

Why do people always want to change the ‘rules’ to suit themselves? The rule of 6 is to protect us all, not to cause inconvenience.

BUT......the government spokesman in the House of Lords admitted three times in a debate that the RULE OF SIX was NOT based on any sort of scientific information, was just an easy number for people to be told and remember.
Seems a strange way of making restrictions for an illness which is nasty, but nowhere near as life threatening as the many illnesses which are now no longer being treated in our current surreal corona world.

It was a group of home educators who objected to being registered a few years ago , which led to attempts to register all children not in school being dropped. So I guess they’ve only themselves to blame. They don’t want the restrictions of being in school, so can’t gather together in their own unregulated groups. If there’s a whole group of home schooled children then they’re not all at home are they? It’s sort of like a school. ..

trisher

HurdyGurdy that doesn't sound like any pub I've heard of. One pub near me was closed down for 3 days shortly after it reopened because a member of staff tested positive. Reopened after a deep clean. Family coming into my house wash or sanitise their hands as they enter, so do I. The only other things coming into my house are groceries and the post.
grow stuff education is specifically mentioned in the exceptions to the ban on meetig up, it doesn't say schools.

I don't know whether this kind of group would count as education. I guess it depends on the wording and would probably need a legal case to sort out, which I doubt would happen.

I do know that any group offering full-time education to five or more pupils at a time must register as a school. This group wouldn't have to do that, so possibly doesn't count as an "education setting". So what is it?

When Michael Wilshaw was Head of Ofsted, he wanted all tuition groups to be registered, but that was all abandoned when he retired.

Adult reading groups and some U3A classes have been told they can't operate, but I don't know who made that decision.

I find it a bit odd - we can only meet up to six inside or outside within 2 households not including children but can meet in a pub not that we go to pubs etc. We have a bubble with DD2 who is single parent so she can go to work as a nurse but currently childcare for DD1 also. If we didn't either her (teacher) or DSil (police) would have to stay off work to look after children so hope changes to this don't happen. Don't see why they can't close pubs, nightclubs etc again so children don't suffer again.

HurdyGurdy that doesn't sound like any pub I've heard of. One pub near me was closed down for 3 days shortly after it reopened because a member of staff tested positive. Reopened after a deep clean. Family coming into my house wash or sanitise their hands as they enter, so do I. The only other things coming into my house are groceries and the post.
grow stuff education is specifically mentioned in the exceptions to the ban on meetig up, it doesn't say schools.

Today in the NE we are in regional lockdown with the aforementioned “bubbles “ supposed to be in place . Very stressful on those keeping to the rules .... now today, in our local parks of which there are many as we live near the coast, had upwards of 35 children and many many adults. Those children were interacting and ALL using the same equipment to play on over and over again all day long I’m guessing hundreds of children from all over the NE in the course of ONE day. Why have bubbles at all in schools, homes etc if this is any indicator of what people feel entitled to do in the middle of such a crisis as a regional lockdown. The teens are being blamed by many but it’s up to everyone to do their bit. We’ve missed out on so much already and made many sacrifices and to see this at the park today made me so worried.

In my view it's a complete nonsense to say people shouldn't meet in their homes or gardens and yet pubs remain open and the pub gardens are full. The pub mentioned may be especially conscientious but it would be very difficult to regulate the behaviour of every customer, for instance, when using toilets.

Also, people are being told to go to work which means they will be within a confined workspace with other people for several hours a day - and they will be using public transport. I understand why this is felt necessary - to stop the economy completely collapsing but I would imagine that is a far greater risk than people meeting up outside.

Surely it isn't sustainable to keep having these mini lockdowns, let alone going back to the full lockdown? The virus is held up for a while but presumably it will just come back when restrictions are relaxed? I suppose the reasoning is that if lots of people become ill enough to have to be admitted to hospital, there may not be the beds or the staff to treat them all.

My own feeling is that the handling of this crisis has been inept and chaotic. If people with the virus are not being identified through testing, tracking and tracing, there is really no effective way of slowing down its progress, unless draconian measures are brought in. This may well destroy the the economic and social structure of this country.

Nanna58

Exactly Growstuff, and if you were assaulted or burgled and three were no officers???? A conundrum indeed

I was assaulted a few years ago and the police didn't ever turn up, so it wouldn't make much difference.

I was just pointing out that your DD and SIL would be breaking the law. Maybe the police force needs to be more flexible with shifts. The virus doesn't know that you're all more important than other people.

trisher I think a group of home educators would have to be registered as a school. Legally, it's a grey area. It's possible that some home educating groups are operating illegally and don't have a requirement for a DBS, Health and Safety certificates, public liability insurance, etc. There have been mumblings for many years to register all private tutors and home educating groups, but nothing has ever been done. I think if anybody made a fuss, the group would count as a social group and, therefore, no more than six would be allowed.

HurdyGurdy excellent post, thank you.

Lord alone knows how we cope with all the many, many ramifications

Exactly Growstuff, and if you were assaulted or burgled and three were no officers???? A conundrum indeed

HurdyGurdy I will send that to everyone I know who keeps moaning about pubs being open, yet they can't have family/friend gatherings in their home! Thank you!

Emelle I didn't know that GN discouraged talk of worshippers.

PS. I do grow stuff in my garden, but don't use grow bags.

Aha! So it's gatherings of worshippers, is it? Makes a change from ravers.

Actually, if you look at the official government statistics, it's people in the same household, followed by visitors to your own home or from visiting other people's homes.

Growbag. I will endeavour to give you an example. We have a local community centre which is supervised by our close neighbour. He told us today that there was a large gathering of worshippers due today. They were to have a service and then a buffet. They would all be close together and singing loudly and then all socialising together. They were advised that they shouldn’t do this but declined to take the advice. There are many groups similar around the country. This is just one example. I hope this helps.

Emelle - we are definitely on the same page ??

Here in the north east. My granddaughters school has forbidden grandparents to pick up or take children to school. Many parents will be having problems with child care .they need to extend the furlough like Germany

Growbag - I'm not being coy, just very conscious that there are somethings we are not encouraged to discuss!