Up to the 2nd December.

Just want to say, keep as safe as you possibly can

Carolpaint

Read Professor Gupta. This is awful, abysmal news. Hate it, all the pathetic of our land rejoicing, it will be a millstone for a century. We have a high death rate because of the NHS being too successful, people are living that should not be. Many of our fittest have to work long shifts because of wimps that have decided their previous illness precludes them coming in duty, others that have to work have have have to do their duty. Many nurses, midwives, teachers, transport workers are having to carry all the slope shoulders.

Professor Gupta’s suggestion relies on the concept of herd immunity. There is no possibility of this, because immunity lasts but a few weeks.

The govt are trying to "follow the science" but that is very difficult when it seems that the scientists can't agree with one another

BlueBelle

Whenever we come out after a few weeks it ll shoot up
Until they get a workable track and trace nothing will make any difference or until they stop overseas travel This is now termed the ‘Spanish wave’ as it all came about from European travel, both ways
I m very annoyed as I m in a low risk area and we could easily have kept going

Couldn't agree more Bluebell.
GPs surgeries knew way back in July that the numbers were going up in October. Sadly this useless government did nothing and they could have done so much. They handed the competent NHS Track and Trace to the totally useless Serco Track and Trace and now we are in this situation again. Serco have a terrible reputation but they are friends of the Tories.
So much blood on their hands. Plus the misery of not being able to see or hug your loved ones.

Great comment Frankie51?
The Christmas obsession really irritates me. Lives are more important than carving the turkey, yet people go on and on about it. Even Beth Whatsit’s first question to the PM after his important address was could families meet up for Christmas!
And why can’t she speak properly? I can’t concentrate on what she says for the hip hop down with the kids missing ‘t’s and ‘g’s all over the place. It’s like being a professional pianist and missing out notes ?
As another poster said, at least bombs aren’t raining down on us.

I have downloaded literally hundreds of papers from the learned journals and in the press (I produce a current affairs email for a local group) and this is the most appalling over-reaction to a respiratory virus ever! Using the current criteria, we would have to lock down in the flu season EVERY year. Tom Jefferson and Carl Heneghan from the Oxford Centre for Evidence Based Medicine have handed the PM a blueprint: Planning the Way Forward, which is complete common sense and based on established practices for dealing with pandemic infections. This virus is not Ebola, it is not Spanish Flu, it is not the Black Death (I know, that's bacterial), it has an Infection Fatality Rate of between 0.1 and 0.2%. That's one or two per thousand infected, with the very elderly disproportionately infected (x1000) as opposed to seasonal flu, which kills some children and young people every year. We had a low flu season last winter, and sadly, Covid is taking away the elderly frail who would have died of the flu, or even a cold. Is it actually worse to die of Covid or of flu? SAGE is stuffed full of mathematical modellers and sociologists who are working to models and projections. It has become an echo chamber and they are now determined to 'prove' that their initial modelling is correct. However, as the physicist Richard Feynman said: "It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong." Well, the 'experiment' is real-world data: the fact is that the Death Rate is NORMAL for the time of year. Having 85 - 90% intensive care bed occupancy is NORMAL - would you want your intensive care beds running at 60%. Only 48 Nightingale Hospital beds were ever used. Does it matter that the infection rate, based on a hundreds of thousands of tests, is running higher than the 'reasonable worst case scenario'? No, it doesn't, because what matters is hospitalisation and death rates, which are NORMAL. The Zoe Covid Symptom App and study, with 4 million app users, is showing that the infection rate is mainly passing harmlessly among young and healthy people, and that the infection rate is either levelling off, or coming down. The PM is inexperienced at governing, ignorant of science, and terrified of admitting that they got it wrong. He has been taken in thrall by SAGE, who will never have to suffer redundancy, penury and the other consequences of Lockdown, and can never be voted out. Remember, infections are coming down NOW. they will claim it was their lockdown which did it, just as in the Spring, when the infection rate had already peaked. As Richard Feynman also said: "I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Time for Boris and the whole cabinet to look at the wider harms and issues, and put them on the balance sheet. Time for some rational thinking and honesty!

Totally agree with what you say earnshaw. I'm in the same position with a vulnerable DH. All we can do is try our best to look after ourselves and our loved ones and if possible help others in need.

I work in a school I'm a bit anxious going in tomorrow after a weeks break I'm 63 and have a few medical conditions asthma being one of them though all guidelines are put in practice I feel more worried now than I was in the last lockdown

Did he say national? I thought this was just for England. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I’m selfish and I think of my daughter on the front line in a hospital already bulging at the seams. Medical staff are still exhausted after previous peak - no holidays for them! - and so there is less energy as they face the second. And there are no staff for the Nightingale hospitals. Many nurses and others left the profession. I wish her and all medical staff safe and well. There are no easy solutions.

Jane10 I agree.
I love the expression 'sair fecht' - just looked it up!

I don't envy Boris but do feel he acts too slow ,I do believe closing borders would help ,but at the end of day a lot of this is up to us ,we try to be careful as we can when out but do notice people who don't social distance and are breaking a lot of rules we were in supermarket the other day the staff wore masks but we're stood chatting in isles I mention it to two who were blocking people accessing shelves and not distancing and all I got was a tut and being talked about as I moved away.?

We locked down to late
We unlocked to soon
Were locking down to late
This will go on and on and on
Until this government fully listens and responds to the experts it was false economy to unlock to early, now hundreds of thousands will be very ill & many will die,
Many more will loose their business and employment
Bad handling has made it even worse than needbe
Wake up Boris!! We're all left like sitting ducks !!
So so wrong ..

Anneeba Schools aren't sending whole bubbles home anyway ... just the handful of pupils sitting next to anybody confirmed positive. They're also not telling staff and parents when anybody is infected. They don't have to report single incidents to PHE and there are concerns that local authorities aren't always passing on information.

It will be for longer, as that is what is needed. And the pitiful track and trace "system" needs to be revamped before lockdown can stop.

Coco51

That’s all very well if you are not shut up, and not able to see anyone. The reason this thing has spread is because of the ’I’m alright Jack’ attitude

... or a couldn't care less attitude! It won't happen to me!

I agree with you.

DH and I are over 60 but generally fit, he still teaches in a secondary school and it makes me feel very unnerved. Until all the asymptomatic children are tested and found it makes a mockery of safe-guarding staff. Taking their temperature is a complete waste of time and now there are mutterings that keeping windows and door open is not practical in colder seasons. Put on more layers I want to shout! I don't want either of us to get it, yet it is almost inevitable. The idea of bubbles within schools ignores the fact that any family with more than one child is already exposed to multiple bubbles. Teachers with children of their own at other schools are multiply exposed. I agree with GagaJo that smaller groups could have face to face sessions, within well aired spaces, to complement work packs, as opposed to attending school full time. Maybe younger people less at risk who are happy to do work over seeing children who have parents needing to work could help provide a solution, using large spaces that are standing idle because of the virus. They would need over-seeing by safety checked staff of course, but this may help working parents? CCTV/ video linked rooms could help ensure safety too. If Johnson had acted when he should, months ago, we wouldn't be in anything like this position, and yes I do blame Cummings for making people think the rules no longer mattered. Poor old 'Boris'? Fool of a Johnson and his coterie more like.

So many deniers and people claiming its all political. I have family in the funeral business and they were full (with deceased) last time around. Luckily numbers started coming down again. They were all literally looking for empty fridge space nationwide. The NHS had to cancel routine ops and treatment last time. The 2nd wave is forecast to be worse. I think personally that we should have closed our borders. Since holidaymakers started going abroad again numbers have escalated in the holiday spots and back home. That and alot of youngsters partying because they don’t think they will get it. Universities are almost all doing online or online plus minimal contact.

I'm one of the vulnerable groups and I'm fed up of being "locked up", why not lock everyone else up one day per week so we vulnerable and shielded can come out of our homes where we are going quietly mad!

I think we have to face the fact that we are now experiencing a second wave of the virus.

In Denmark we went into lockdown in the middle of March with the positive result that there were relatively few cases and few of those resulted in deaths.

So the lockdown does seem to work if implemented as soon as it is necessary.

Right now we are not in lockdown, but restrictions have been increased. We have to be masked in public buildings, shops, buses, trains and taxis.

Only 10 people may be in one place at any one time.

Restaurants and pubs have to close at 10 p.m.

Teachers and students must be masked in all adult education centres.

Patients and staff must be masked in hospitals and doctor's premises.

The border to Germany is closed again, although there are more cases of Covid 19 on the Danish side of the border than the German at the moment.

We shall see whether al this helps as it did in March where schools and kindergartens were closed as well.

Nobody really knows what to do about this virus, so we are learning by trail and error.

That’s all very well if you are not shut up, and not able to see anyone. The reason this thing has spread is because of the ’I’m alright Jack’ attitude

I have to say it was so tragic Boris would not listen and could easily have had a full ( including schools and universities) from September and everything would be easier now.
I really thought, naively, that yesterday the announcement was delayed as he had heard from the educational professionals and was going to rethink a sensible option.
This is not a proper lockdown and cannot work. Universities have to send home now all students who can work on line and maybe just keep people with lab work in Universities for now. It will have to happen eventually. Schools could be given a variety of options depending on circumstances to go online or open part time or at least have children in part time on a rotary basis. It seems crazy to tell over 60s to stay home when many teaching or school and University staff are over 60 or does Boris think students wander in and teach themselves?
More backtracking is inevitable this way and goodness knows when this second lockdown will end . It does not help people's mental health to be treated this way.

Perhaps the horrifying prospect of ice rinks needing to be utilised to store bodies if morgues overflow might bring it home to people the severity of our situation, and perhaps shake up the selfish numpties who state that nothing is going to stand in the way of their Christmas!

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-52113433

Personally I think Boris has 'Brain Fog' and is having difficulty assessing the situation - probably taking advice from all quarters! I know I am vulnerable but think this 2nd spell has been brought about by those who decided (in their wisdom) to ignore social distancing. I did go out last week because I suspected this would happen. I'll miss the family, but as long as I have the internet............

Saggi

I'm so sorry!

I remember you have other struggles too.

Just think what an amazing big family party you will have when the time comes that it may be arranged! There is nothing to stop a postponed Party to celebrate all those important milestones!