Up to the 2nd December.

What infuriates me most is the constant contradiction. To be told '2 December' by the prime minister on Saturday and then on Sunday hear Michael Gove say that 2 December was an 'aspiration' gives such a bad impression and is so unsettling it makes things even worse. Few people will have thought that 2 December meant '2 Dec come hell or high water'. Michael Gove's intervention just makes it sound in sincere as well.

I wish we had had the second lockdown sooner with an extended half term break for schools to try and break the cycle. An extra planned week off school wouldn't have made much difference to schooling ( compared to intermittent self- isolating), but might have been a hard check on virus reproduction.

I just don’t get this angst and Christmas upset. It is but one day!! How selfish can people get? Self self self. Just follow the rules and we can all benefit.

Spanish Flu was a flu virus (not a coronavirus), which infected approximately a third of the world's population. Although there are some similarities, there are also a number of significant differences. Both are primarily respiratory, but Covid 19 also causes blood clots in the veins and arteries of the lungs, heart, legs or brain, which is one of the reasons a different group of people are at high risk.

You can't please them all, can you? With the experts on each side disagreeing with each other how can the rest of us know which is the most sensible path to take?
Apparently there is a chart about exactly where the infection is being caught and it's universities, care homes and hospitals which are top of the list. Therefore shutting shops, pubs, hairdressers and the like doesn't seem logical does it?

If 25% of the population are at high risk then that IS a worrying number. I was thinking maybe our modern lifestyles are at fault, or maybe it is due to hereditary. Whatever is the cause, I'm guessing people had all these underlying conditions when Spanish flu was around judging by the numbers who died then.
So, we are not made perfectly, some will be luckier than others with their health and it may always be a case of survival of the fittest when it comes to pandemics. I guess that is the logic behind herd immunity.

Just reading all the different opinions on here makes it so clear that whatever decisions are made by the government, some people will not agree with them. Add a bit of scientific knowledge to those opinions so that they carry more weight and it is even worse. SAGE is made up of highly respected scientists but so is the ‘unofficial SAGE’ ( I think that is what they call themselves). The opinions of these two groups often clash.

Then add on the advice from the economists, which almost inevitably is completely in opposition to the medical fraternity, and we have a complete broth. Somehow, the government has to make sense of all this and make decisions that suit everyone. Oh, dear! Glad I am not PM.

Everything Gardendisy, Growstuff and Geekesse write I am in agreement with. My GS is in primary school so teachers staying in their own bubble is doable. He goes back to school today after nearly three weeks at home (one week half term) and I’m sure it won’t be long before he is off again, isolating. Children will be in and out of school like yo-yos. You can’t tell me that this is good for their education and mental health.

24·4% of the UK population were at high risk due to a record of at least one underlying health condition, including 8·3% of school-aged children, 19·6% of working-aged adults, and 66·2%
of individuals aged 70 years or more.

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.24.20179192v1.full.pdf

GrannyRose15

20 to 30 million considered vulnerable. What nonsense. If you are going to argue your case at least use credible statistics.

For a start, there are 15 million over 60s in the UK. It's known that people over 60 are more likely to be affected badly. It's not known exactly how many diabetics, asthmatics and people with heart conditions there are, but it's certainly millions. There are also people with compromised immune systems for a variety of reasons. All these people would be considered to have "underlying conditions" if they were to die. It's also known that people from some ethnic backgrounds are up to one and a half more likely to die, if they catch Covid.

So GrannyRose, maybe you'd like to take back what you wrote. My statistics are very credible. Maybe you'd like to think carefully next time you dismiss a post with "What nonsense"!

Isn’t it fun being awake at 03.43 with the wind howling and the rain lashing.....

I'm struggling to understand how the broad term BAME puts all these people into the 20 - 30 million weak category. Many of them are as strong as an ox and can run marathons. Giving them the label "vulnerable" just distorts all the figures.

Totally agree granny rose.

20 to 30 million considered vulnerable. What nonsense. If you are going to argue your case at least use credible statistics.

As a vulnerable, disabled person who lives alone, I have been so dammed sick of not seeing my loved ones for almost 11 months in one case and 16 months in another, i decided to find a way to get out of the house and signed myself up to a college course. One day a week I sit in a classroom with another 20 people, all sitting approx 60cm (2ft) apart for 7 hours.
If this government is going to insist on keeping me apart from the two people in this world that I love for any longer, I'd rather be in that classroom and hopefully I'll get this stupid virus and with a bit of luck it will take me out of the equation because of rather not live in a world where we're treated like a bunch of toddlers who have no common sense - allow us to decide the level of risk we're prepared to accept for ourselves!
As far as the 'young people' who are attending raves are concerned, surely they have parents who can tell them that they're being irresponsible and that if they are going to persist with this behaviour they'll not be allowed to come back into the family home because there are family members
who need to be protected

NemosMum

twitter.com/timspector/status/1322833146669371392?s=20 For interest, from the Zoe Covid Symptom Study App, with over a million users each day. The best evidence by a country mile!

The Zoe App doesn't include anybody under 20 or people in care homes.

Tim Spector's study on Long Covid is interesting.

Long COVID affects around 10% of 18-49 year olds who become unwell with COVID-19.

covid.joinzoe.com/post/long-covid

Barmeyoldbat

I agree with you Lucca, it is one day of the year by Jan 2nd you have forgotten Christmas and are planning summer holidays. Is the price of more infections and death worth paying for a celebration at Christmas
ClarasOrr, the trouble is their is a vast number of people who don't use their common sense and I don't see why I as a vulnerable person should have to shield for goodness how long to allow others to go out drinking, partying etc.

I agree Barmeyoldbat. It's totally selfish. It would appear vulnerable people don't matter. I mean, what's another death of somebody with underlying conditions? They were being kept alive beyond their time anyway!

I spoke to a Head Teacher today who told me universities and secondary schools are the "Superspreaders" If they studied at home it would make a huge difference.

I agree with you Lucca, it is one day of the year by Jan 2nd you have forgotten Christmas and are planning summer holidays. Is the price of more infections and death worth paying for a celebration at Christmas
ClarasOrr, the trouble is their is a vast number of people who don't use their common sense and I don't see why I as a vulnerable person should have to shield for goodness how long to allow others to go out drinking, partying etc.

I am with you Lucca - I am facing the very real possibility of Christmas on my own for the first time ever in my life. But we will all make contact as best we can and simply make the best of it all - what else can we do?

Honestly in the midst of all this illness and looming economic disaster if I hear another moan about pigs in bloody blankets or Christmas decorations.......
Get over it ! It’s so easy for parents to make a Christmas Day fun for small children and one year without the ritual visit of relatives is no big deal.
Oops, rant over.

Agree. Shield vulnerable people. Let the rest use common sense and get on with life

Who would be a leader of any country at the moment? They are between a rock and a hard place, except a President Trump who is in denial.

The excess death level is the only true measure of the impact of Covid. Yes it does include, say, increased suicides, heart attacks etc. But these increases are a consequence of the pandemic so reflect the management..... Sorry mismanagement, of the pandemic in this country.

Panic, followed by closed eyes and ears are not a sound way of managing in a crisis, nor is bumbling and telling baldfaced lies but these are the tools choose by our government and the body count, using excess deaths measure, is heading towards 80,000 but who cares, certainly not the government's backbenchers who are demanding more. Shades of Mengeles perhaps.

Just as I expected, as soon as the lockdown was mentioned many people have gone into ‘let’s party while we can’ mode. Rules have been broken even more than previously. Police have closed down illegal raves.
How many people will have picked up the infection because of their own stupidity before Thursday? Sadly, they are also the ones who will continue to break the rules, and share their bugs, after Thursday.