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A difficult situation........... ..

(33 Posts)
Luckygirl Thu 05-Nov-20 14:12:47

What a conundrum.

I can see why this lady's family might want to spend time with her at her very great age, and why they are concerned at curtailed visiting for at least a month.

I am also puzzled why the home is deemed to be legally in charge of this woman - they have a legal obligation to provide good care for her while she is there, but do they have the obligation to prevent her family choosing to look after her at home? I am not entirely sure; and I worked in this field for many years.

I can understand they might involve the local authority social services if they have reason to believe that she would be poorly cared for elsewhere - she would be classed as a vulnerable adult.

The use of the police and an arrest (however brief) seems very heavy handed. A call to SSD to get someone to check the home circumstances would seem to be a better option.

M0nica Fri 06-Nov-20 18:16:25

Its time the government took responsibility and showed care and compassion for those in care.

Currently they are full of empty platitudes but no action. essentially they do not think old frail people like this matter and their actions make this clear.

Tweedle24 Fri 06-Nov-20 11:21:00

We still don’t know if the resident wanted to leave the care home. If not, the daughter had no right to take her.

I sympathise with both parties but, if the home has made the decision not to allow visitors inside because it is not a suitable building to make this happen safely, then so be it. It is sad but, the care staff have the health and safety of all of the residents to consider.

maddyone Fri 06-Nov-20 09:31:51

I saw the report on the television news. It is a heartbreaking case, but as Dorsetcupcake says, there are a lot of points to consider. It is indeed cruel to totally deny care home residents any contact with their family for so long, but again just through television news, I’ve seen a number of care homes have put in place some very imaginative ideas so they can allow family visits. It makes me wonder why all homes have not risen to the challenge by now and developed a safe system for family visits.
Involving the police is out of order. If that was my mum, I’d be looking for a new home now.

Dorsetcupcake61 Fri 06-Nov-20 09:22:45

I think this is a complex situation and represents the impossible situation many people face. Care homes vary from good to awful. As a relative I would be worried if no or limited access to a relative. Care homes have a duty of care to ALL their residents. The resident/family may be happy to take risks but what about the other residents who are not? The relatives may wish to care for the lady now but what has changed since they arranged for her to enter care? How about the lady involved? Does she even understand where home is?
It's very emotive and each case is unique. I have cared for my father who had dementia and know how concerned I was when he had respite care. I have worked in care homes and can see it from the perspective of the home. Relatives,like care homes ,vary. Some are totally involved and wonderful, others motives and relationships with residents are questionable.
We dont know the finer details of what happened here. I think the most important thing it has done is highlighted the situation and led to discussion. All the government has done is pay lip service to supporting the situation. It was a broken system pre covid. The levels of suffering for relatives and residents are intolerable but they are one of the many groups the government continues to fail.

M0nica Fri 06-Nov-20 07:50:02

The lack of contact and touch between thse in care and their families during lockdown has caused deep distress to those in care and led to severe mental deterioration in many.

I can well understand this lady wanting to take her mother home and care for her. Why the nursing home did not let her do so is puzzling, if she could cope for a few months.

The most damning thing that can be said of this governmnt during COVID is the utterly inhumane way it has treated the weakest in society, those in care. From its utter disregard of those in care from the start; sending COVID patients back to care homes, the lack of PPE for staff and lack of testing, sometimes lack of medical care in Wave 1, to the way it has done nothing, and continues to do nothing to find ways of allowing visits, just saying that care homes know best.

No wonder relatives, like the one in question, want to protect the mental and physical health of someone in care by taking them home, for at least a short period.

MissChateline Thu 05-Nov-20 17:57:04

If the family had POA and control of the mother’s financial affairs could they have stopped the payments to the care home so the mother would have been “evicted “. Just a thought .

B9exchange Thu 05-Nov-20 16:18:57

I think back to that video of the 101 year old just pleading over and over again 'help me, please help me' after she was shut in a home unable to see her family. I don't believe anyone that age is bothered about getting the virus, they just want contact with their families for the short time they have left.

Taking your mother home is not putting others at risk. For the few seconds it took to hug her and guide her out the risk was minimal, supposedly it takes 15 minutes of exposure to contract the disease, if we are to believe the app!

Shropshirelass Thu 05-Nov-20 15:58:34

My Mom is 98 and in a home. She is well cared for but the home is really stretched during this pandemic. It is a small private home. Mom says the carers don’t have time to chat but they do everything she needs. She is almost blind and is quite frustrated and anxious at the moment. I have felt like fetching her out but that would upset Mom too much. Hopefully with the new advice from Government I will be able to see her soon.

Callistemon Thu 05-Nov-20 15:56:48

I would be looking for another home, one more caring.

Missfoodlove Thu 05-Nov-20 15:52:14

Why would anyone cause such distress to an elderly person?
It was a selfish and thoughtless act.
I am really shocked that anyone would do such a thing.
My mother who was in a home had no idea who I was for two years.
Had I bundled her into a car she would probably have had a heart attack.
I stand by what I said, I guarantee they will be doing the talk show rounds in the coming days.

Luckygirl Thu 05-Nov-20 15:50:56

SSD should have been called in to investigate the well-being of this old lady and make a decision as to whether she would be safe at home.

The fact of whether the daughter is guilty of an offence against the staff of the home by committing a physical assault is not a reason or justification for the police removing the old lady from the daughter's home and taking her back to the nursing home.

A Home cannot have PofA as far as I am aware.

Callistemon Thu 05-Nov-20 15:46:38


I think this is a publicity stunt by a failing actress to get media attention.
It’s worked

Words don't fail me Oopsminty!

That is one of the nastiest posts I've seen for a long while, Missfoodlove.
I hope you're never put in that position, although I doubt that you will.

Oopsminty Thu 05-Nov-20 15:42:03


I think this is a publicity stunt by a failing actress to get media attention.
It’s worked

Good grief.

Words fail me

I suppose the police were in on it as well

Missfoodlove Thu 05-Nov-20 15:39:09

I think this is a publicity stunt by a failing actress to get media attention.
It’s worked

B9exchange Thu 05-Nov-20 15:34:49

It puts the police in an awful situation. I think if I was a member of the police force taking the call, I would have responded as to a burglary, ie too busy at the moment, will send you an email!

Once the mother was safely inside her daughter's home, I think it would be up to SS to prove that she couldn't look after her, as a retired nurse, I think they might find that difficult to prove.

Callistemon Thu 05-Nov-20 15:29:21


No de-arrested and that is what I typed.

Callistemon Thu 05-Nov-20 15:28:27

The police say they were called because of an assault.
The family deny there was an assault and, as Ms Angeli was re-arrested, it sounds as if the police agreed with her.
It sounds as if they had done everything they possibly could, including refusing to allow their mother to be returned to the home after a hospital visit (that was overturned) to applying to work in the care home (refused).
They seem to have exhausted all possibilities.

Since when have care homes been allowed more power over people's lives than their own families?

Grannynannywanny Thu 05-Nov-20 15:16:55

Just watched the video. Such a desperately sad situation for all concerned. A situation I fully understand after spending the past 8 months looking in a care home window at someone who is literally crying out for a hug.

However the old lady’s daughter has admitted when the staff opened the door to accept her flowers that she forced her way in and grabbed her mother for a hug. As this was done on the spur of the moment there would have been no hygiene measures in place, no hand washing, no PPE. Therefore her mother, the other residents and the staff have all potentially been put at risk. I suspect that’s why the police were called.

Callistemon Thu 05-Nov-20 15:14:31

She has dementia. The home will have got a DOLS.

And apparently the assessor does not have to visit the person under the present circumstances.

petra Thu 05-Nov-20 15:08:39

This, this is what 'we've' become. But sadly I feel there is more to come.
Part of the bill that was passed yesterday.
give the power to use reasonable force to pcso's and any person designated by the Secretary of State for the purpose of this regulation
Big brother or what!!

Callistemon Thu 05-Nov-20 15:08:17

I do not know why a care home should have PoA if there are next-of-kin.
Did the family agree to or even know about this?

Oopsminty Thu 05-Nov-20 15:05:17

Therefore the lady concerned would have chosen the home as her POA, either for both parts or for one of them.

I don't think so!

She has dementia. The home will have got a DOLS.

Lingirl Thu 05-Nov-20 14:59:25

The home have POA, if what was said on tv this morning is correct. To make and register a POA the person must have the mental capacity to do this. The reasons being if in the future they lost capacity to make decisions they would be assured whoever they had chosen as their POA would make decisions on their behalf in their ‘best interest’ , taking into account what would be their wishes or choice/decisions before they lost capacity.
POA consists of two parts:
- health and welfare
- property and financial affairs.
You can have the same person for both or have different people for each part. It’s the person concerned own personal choice, remember this can only be made and registered when someone has capacity to make such a decision. If not it goes to the Court of Protection.
Therefore the lady concerned would have chosen the home as her POA, either for both parts or for one of them.

Callistemon Thu 05-Nov-20 14:52:39

Stealing your own mother.

What have we come to?

petra Thu 05-Nov-20 14:43:24

From the website.
To arrest you the police need reasonable grounds to suspect you're involved in a crime for which your arrest is necessary
What crime?