Should schools close?

“ Are teachers at more risk than shop assistants for example?”
I think possibly yes given that their contact will be for a longer time ? And probably at closer proximity.

Sorry but could you explain your “panic” comment ? I don’t mean to be rude

JenniferEccles - yes, it is indeed necessary to elaborate. Why the assumption that school is universally a good thing? Where's the evidence?

Hot meals? Really? Do you know any children who are starved at home? (Hot or cold makes no difference.) The 'social aspect' isn't welcomed by those who are bullied. Getting safely home from a hostile school environment is also a possibility.

Many secondary aged pupils have benefitted enormously from the removal of stress and anxiety, the opportunities to study in new, exciting ways. Home learning suits some far more.

As teachers we love to sing our praises and buy into the school ethos (of course, we're vitally needed, aren't we?) - not often stopping to consider the (accidental) damage we can do.

blog.cambridgeinternational.org/the-inclusive-benefits-of-lockdown-learning/

growstuff
How rude of you to state that I don’t understand that the vaccination will not prevent transmission. Let’s have the facts, the scientists have said they don’t know at this stage whether the vaccine will prevent transmission. Since the scientists don’t know, I don’t how you can possibly claim that you do know!

Growstuff just to let you know my daughter works in a college for 16 - 18 year old students - young adults. They can socially distance in the classroom as half the class are present and the other half are online. They swap of course so they all get time with there teacher.
Her worry is that no provision has been made in the staff room so teachers are in close contact and the college has banned masks apart from in corridors.
I agree with you about secondary schools as my GD is in year 11 and there are 200 pupils in that year so not much chance of keeping them apart.

Their!

suziewoozie ^ I’m fed up with provocative snide GFery^

What does this Gfery stand for? What does it mean?

Schools should stay open .
Too many vulnerable children falling through the net.
SEN children not being properly catered for.

Grateful that teachers are in schools.

Many key workers have worked through first and second lockdown.

AGAA4

Growstuff just to let you know my daughter works in a college for 16 - 18 year old students - young adults. They can socially distance in the classroom as half the class are present and the other half are online. They swap of course so they all get time with there teacher.
Her worry is that no provision has been made in the staff room so teachers are in close contact and the college has banned masks apart from in corridors.
I agree with you about secondary schools as my GD is in year 11 and there are 200 pupils in that year so not much chance of keeping them apart.

Thanks for that info AGAA4. That makes sense. I just wish people who bleat on about schools remaining open for all pupils (schools were never closed) really understood the issues, especially in secondary schools. School children are taking infection back home and into the community. It's not just about the risk to the children themselves or the staff, but everybody. Classrooms themselves cannot be safe and the virus doesn't respect that.

I believe it's a question of time before schools (at least in areas with the highest infection rates) are ordered to close - at least partially. There are many pupils in those areas who already having their education disrupted. One Facebook friend has posted that no child in her school has had more than three weeks in school without some interruption. I have no doubt the government will try to blame the unions or anybody else who makes a handy scapegoat.

Meanwhile, working parents are stressed out because they don't know whether their children will be sent home and whether they'll be able to go to work next day. It would be better if they knew where they stood (maybe with part-time in school) and they could come to some arrangement about shifts.

The government has already ordered schools to have distant learning materials ready. It needs to do its bit now and deliver the IT resources and mentoring/tutoring programmes it promised.

maddyone

growstuff
How rude of you to state that I don’t understand that the vaccination will not prevent transmission. Let’s have the facts, the scientists have said they don’t know at this stage whether the vaccine will prevent transmission. Since the scientists don’t know, I don’t how you can possibly claim that you do know!

Exactly! There is no evidence it prevents transmission, so giving it to teaching staff and/or pupils would be a waste of time. It does not provide any solution to the current problem.

If the vaccine really does have the efficacy claimed, the objective is to save the lives of those most clinically vulnerable.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

That's interesting maddyone coming from the horse's mouth. Thank you.
12 hours a day? Crikey, I hope elderly people coming to the practice are happy to take the slots in the four hours after darkness on winter roads. Or early in the morning.
Does this mean Christmas Day and Boxing Day too?
The poor gps are going to be so busy doing this, how can they possibly have time for other patients with other health concerns?
So some of the previous concerns raised by posters on the vaccine thread were well founded.
Perhaps you could post the above info on that thread to enlighten everyone.
(I'm rather glad I'm a long way down the list now.)

Or indeed Ellianne spend time with their own families!

I can tell you a bit about the vaccine. It is to be given to the most elderly first as long term side effects are unknown.

Is it, aye?

So they are using all of the old people as guinea pigs? And the care home workers and health care professionals that are also in priority groups 1 and 2? Are they not worried about them all suffering from the long term side effects as well?

I don't know your source of information Maddyone but I'd like to know what it is as this seems very unlikely.

Alegrias2 maddy works for a GP surgery so her information will be up to the minute

jenpax

Alegrias2 maddy works for a GP surgery so her information will be up to the minute

I don't think maddyone works in a surgery, but her DD and SIL are both GPs.

Thanks jenpax but I still don't believe it

Giving it to the old people first as long term side effects are unknown? How do you think that would go down with the population at large. "We're going to use granny as a guinea pig because her life doesn't matter?" That's hardly going to inspire confidence in the vaccine, is it?

Nope, not convinced. Maybe maddyone can convince me.

Well that's my Doctors stuffed if they have to do all that injecting. What do I base that sarky comment on? Talking to friends and family over the past 7 months.
One neighbour had to be taken to A&E by her daughter because 'our' Doctor just kept proscibing over the phone ?

I think Maddyone is right in that people in care homes will be the first to get the vaccine, then over 80's, over 75's and so on as they are the most vulnerable and are likely to become very ill with Covid.

I have 2 granddaughters in primary school and there are loads of children off isolating and a couple of confirmed cases - one is only 3 and her sister is 6. My adult daughter is a secondary school teacher and she herself has been told to start isolation today as 2 other teachers are confirmed positive, after a pupil was positive. It's a worry as my daughter is now 6 months pregnant too. She'll be doing online teaching for the next fortnight.

I believe maddyone does know what she is talking about and has given us an explanation of the plan coming from the Department of Health. She does not need to be questioned further. Whether we agree or disagree with the reasons behind who, when, how etc we should be very glad and just get on with the job.

I am not questioning at all the plans for rollout of the vaccine. However the statement that old people are being given the vaccine first because the side effects are not known concerns me a lot. I don't believe it is true. If is is true, then someone needs to get on to the press because this goes against all the rules for using vaccines. You, Ellianne, have already said it has made you glad you are further down the list, so it is causing concern already. Anyone who posts something like that deserves to be asked to defend it.

Alegrias2

I am not questioning at all the plans for rollout of the vaccine. However the statement that old people are being given the vaccine first because the side effects are not known concerns me a lot. I don't believe it is true. If is is true, then someone needs to get on to the press because this goes against all the rules for using vaccines. You, Ellianne, have already said it has made you glad you are further down the list, so it is causing concern already. Anyone who posts something like that deserves to be asked to defend it.

The vaccine is being given to older people first because they are the ones who are at most risk from dying.

It has not yet been established whether this vaccine stops people being infected or stops them from being infectious. Therefore, it will have negligible effect on those who are at low risk of the worst symptoms. They still need to take all the normal precautions.

It makes clinical sense to try to protect. those most at risk of hospitalisation and dying. We don't even how the elderly and/or people with compromised immune systems will respond anyway. From what is known at the moment, the Pfizer vaccine will prevent infected people from suffering further organ damage, not stop them from being infected in the first place.

I am at number 5 in the list of priorities and have seen nothing which would deter me from having the vaccine if/when it becomes available.

Alegrias2

I am not questioning at all the plans for rollout of the vaccine. However the statement that old people are being given the vaccine first because the side effects are not known concerns me a lot. I don't believe it is true. If is is true, then someone needs to get on to the press because this goes against all the rules for using vaccines. You, Ellianne, have already said it has made you glad you are further down the list, so it is causing concern already. Anyone who posts something like that deserves to be asked to defend it.

I don't think anyone on here needs to defend the plan for the vaccine - they're not responsible for its implementation.

I assume the very elderly will be the first to be offered the vaccine because they are most at risk.

This is the latest graph breaking down infections by age group. Unfortunately, it's already two weeks out of date, but show very clearly that the steepest rise is amongst secondary pupils.

The vaccine will do nothing to stop that. The only solution is to stop pupils in the most infected areas from contact.

There is almost nowhere in the country now with a daily infection rate below 20 in 100,000, which is 1 in 5,000. That means in a secondary school of 2,000, there could be two new cases every week. Some areas are, of course, much higher.