We're in tier 4

Luckygirl

*to ruin the lives of the next generation* - I do not think this is happening. It may be that in the end their careers and education will be delayed by a year - does this really matter so much? They are all in the same boat. For those from most families they will have learned new things during this time; but for those from poor families it will indeed have been detrimental. There will be winners and losers, but I do not buy the sweeping generalisation that a whole generation's lives will be ruined.

My GC have done lots of things in lockdowns that they probably would not have done if they had been in school; and they are learning that life sometimes throws rubbish at you and you have to gird up your loins and get on with it. They have learned tolerance and kindness in their dealings with me and others who are vulnerable. They have learned the science of the spread of disease; they have learned that sometimes things have to change, but that we can all do the best we can and pull together to get through it all.

None of this is what we would have chosen, but I do not think that a whole generation are having their lives ruined - I think that they are having a very difficult year in many ways, but that things will improve in the end and they will emerge as wiser more tolerant young adults.

Good post Luckygirl

I'm sure that a lot of us feel a bit safer now.

We’re in the Southeast, and expected it. I deliberately didn’t get loads of food in. People have just been behaving as normal.

I met someone in the wood yesterday who told me that she just ignores the rules; and then went on to grumble that her London children cannot now visit her over Christmas. Presumably she could not work out the connection between the two statements: that it is people like her who increase the spread and cause stricter measures to be needed.

It was very wrong to post a message allegedly quoting a medic (how do we know? People can post anything on a social media site) urging folk not to go to hospitals.

Very worrying symptoms should always be checked out. This scaremongering happened back in the spring when many serious diagnoses were missed as patients refused to have their symptoms investigated.

I m never surprised at the behaviour of people. I live opposite an ice cream shop on the coast. I see groups and families each choose a different flavour of ice cream and then lick each other’s ice creams to sample the flavours. No wonder it’s spreading.

to ruin the lives of the next generation - I do not think this is happening. It may be that in the end their careers and education will be delayed by a year - does this really matter so much? They are all in the same boat. For those from most families they will have learned new things during this time; but for those from poor families it will indeed have been detrimental. There will be winners and losers, but I do not buy the sweeping generalisation that a whole generation's lives will be ruined.

My GC have done lots of things in lockdowns that they probably would not have done if they had been in school; and they are learning that life sometimes throws rubbish at you and you have to gird up your loins and get on with it. They have learned tolerance and kindness in their dealings with me and others who are vulnerable. They have learned the science of the spread of disease; they have learned that sometimes things have to change, but that we can all do the best we can and pull together to get through it all.

None of this is what we would have chosen, but I do not think that a whole generation are having their lives ruined - I think that they are having a very difficult year in many ways, but that things will improve in the end and they will emerge as wiser more tolerant young adults.

Saying that people should not go to hospital if they are ill is a very dangerous and damaging type of post.

Of course we should, and without worrying. How many people are dying because they are being so frightened by this sort of statement?

My DH had a scan last week at our local hospital. He will be having a telephone consultation about the results tomorrow. We have both been to to the hospital this year and felt perfectly safe. A and E departments are open, so go if you really need to.

LauraNorder I’m sick of hearing about the measures being an infringement of our civil liberties. Death is the ultimate liberty, is that what the objectors really want.

I am not sure about that. Everyday we do things, go places, where there is a known risk that as a result of our actions or others facilitating them, people can die. Driving a car, crossing a road, doing building work the actions that can result in deaths are too numerous to mention.

I think we need to keep a a sense of proprtion. It is impossible to live a risk free life, life is finite.

Government action is necessary to contain this virus and to enable as many people as possible to survive it, but if the result is to ruin the lives of the next generation, and destroy the livelihoods of millions of people in this country, with all the deaths that will result from those two results. Do we not need to set a balance?

When DH had a heart attack in November, I rang for an ambulance, I didn't think twice about it. It arrived within minutes. DH has since had triple bypass surgery and some post-operative problems, but is now doing fine and should be home for the New Year.

He is is a world class cardiac unit where, as in the whole hospital, visiting is allowed, one visitor for one hour at stipulated times. I wear a mask and gloves and we socially distance. For DH, and many other patients, these visits are an important part of their recovery.

Our hospitals aren't overwhelmed... yet .We've been told to call an ambulance as normal in any emergency .We had cause to call one for MIL who took ill when she showed signs of a stroke .nhs24 sent a paramedic first on a motorbike and he stayed with us until the ambulance arrived.We were concerned about her being in hospital but she says the 3 days there were fine with lovely staff and she was very well taken care of.
Thankfully she is fine ..Hopefully people will e sensible and it wont be overwhelmed over the festive season. The local hospital Facebook page has a fixed post about getting emergencies dealt with quickly as waiting too long can be more of a problem for the hospital if the situation deteriorates.

please take care that you don’t have to go to hospital for any reason whatsoever , especially as a patient

My dd, a NQ doctor, spent hours last week trying to persuade a scared patient that they urgently needed an operation to prevent their appendix from bursting.

Telling people not to go to hospital is irresponsible and could lead to otherwise preventable deaths.

please take care that you don’t have to go to hospital for any reason whatsoever , especially as a patient

This bit scared me.
Illness isn’t something you can help is it? Taking care only covers so much. The rest isn’t in our hands if symptoms arise.

It's the reality, though, Urmstongran, that so many choose to ignore. Some stubbornly refuse to change their Christmas plans - while others are dying in our packed hospitals.

Expecting people to use 'common sense' (not a common thing) when they just don't realise the grave consequences of their behaviour is foolish.

We needed the tier 4 clampdown to, hopefully, reduce the end of January massacre in the making.

A couple of these posts have really scared me. I wish I hadn’t read them.

My dil works in palliative care in a large city hospital. Today is her day off. Both back into work tomorrow. She and ds are trying to finish wrapping. Prep what they can for Xmas day. Get the laundry done. Clean the house. She is dead on her feet but more worrying she is emotionally drained trying to comfort relatives who are distraught and wanting to see their loved ones before it is too late.
Her words are ..... please take care that you don’t have to go to hospital for any reason whatsoever , especially as a patient.

I’m sick of hearing about the measures being an infringement of our civil liberties. Death is the ultimate liberty, is that what the objectors really want.

that's interesting. which country is that. how are the figures there.
i heard a surgeon ring the radio today, his wife is a respiratory intensive care consultant. he said last night in London 120 patients were needing an intensive care bed, and none were available. throughout london. they had to choose who to admit, an 80 year old, otherwise fit and active, or a pregnant 30 year old. only one bed available. they chose the 30 year old, as two lives involved, and being younger a better chance of survival.
he described the nightingale hosp as ventilator warehouse. there are no staff. intensive care needs about 40-50 staff for 10 patients. so how many would be needed, with relevant special training, for those 120 patients in need of intensive care, even if they could be put in nightingales. there are not enough staff for the units they do have. he has had to cancel his cancer list for surgery tomorrow, because all the post operative beds have been re-purposed for covid.

We have only finished this week a Demi- lockdown. Other than work or school it entailed, signed and dated papers allowing a short period of time for exercise or shopping, with a 10 pm curfew, which has now been changed to an 8pm one, exemption Christmas Eve, with mask wearing and cars being stopped. I have decided to stay alone for Christmas.

I totally agree- my neighbours have carried on as normal and I only saw the father wear a mask once. The 3 adult children come and go as they please, have friends round when they fancy and do not give a stuff.

It is all so hard for everyone. I thought it very wrong to suggest a five day window so far in advance. Until this Pandemic goes, we have to use common sense and protect ourselves. The not keeping to the rules has led to this. I think there should be a National Tier system all these silky pockets are confusing. If people want to carry on as if nothing is wrong it should be a crime, because they risk all our lives. They won’t hesitate to use the NHS if they get it,

We in the North have put up with more restrictions than yourselves over the months so we know what it's all about.

The risk is real, to everyone. It's no ordinary 'flu.