Intensive Care Wards BBC News.

Alegrias1 "I read the article at your link. Its nine months old?? I’m afraid I stopped at the part near the end where Fergus Walsh started to say that we were only going to get a tiny proportion of the vaccines we need and it wouldn’t work for older people anyway. So, he got that wrong and that only reinforces the fact that his judgement on these matters is possibly not that good."

I was quite aware of the date (it's in the link) and given that was the way he thought and worked with the hospitals, then it is even more relevant now to know that the reports are put together.

However you do not quote his comment about vaccines accurately. He did not say the vaccine would not work on older people. What he said is completely true. Plus we did only get a small amount in 2020 and it could well take (from the date of the article) 18 months for mass production.

We do have news reports showing other disturbing news. Viewers were warned before this news item. It would be great to have news devoid of such scenes but natural disasters, wars, starvation and the pressures faced by the NHS will continue to come into our homes.

But thank you for read the Guardian article.

Seeing people in distress is not a fact, its manipulative.

These are not documentaries, this is the news.

Shall we show people dying slowly of cancer in hospital on the tea-time news? After all most of us can't avoid getting that either, but if it stops some people smoking, would that be worth it? Of course not.

I think we all agree that however the deaths are reported it’s far too many, and represents heartbreak for thousands of families.

I prefer to know the facts however frightening they may be. It is sad that the reality panics a lot of people who are doing the right thing, but there are quite a few who aren’t, and if such documentaries influence some of them, I believe it’s worth it.

I couldn’t watch it, it’s the only way I can cope, I’m aware of the numbers and it’s truly terrifying.

Why would you say that there have been more than 600 deaths per day when that is what is on the governments own statistics site Growstuff? I am going to guess that you mean deaths were Covid is on the certificate? Remembering that this is not the measure that they cite on the news, its the 28 day one.

The same website has data up to 18th December and average deaths per day then under the death certificate measure was 482. We can't make any prediction yet about what that will be in the last 3 weeks. Although I'm sure we agreed it will be significantly higher.

I'll bet the doubters and flouters will be the ones who moan the loudest when they catch the virus. Empty vessels etc. etc.

oops, we keep cross-posting!

growstuff

Alegrias Whenever I give the number of deaths, I'm careful to mention that it's "deaths registered on ...". The number of actual deaths which have occurred on a given death are almost certainly even higher than those registered.

I understand that Growstuff, this is not aimed at you. My concern is that the news say things like "1,000 people died yesterday", and it is not true and it is irresponsible. It was said verbatim on the News at Ten last night.

Ooops!

"on a given date"

The seven day average is likely to give a more accurate number, but you denied that there have been more than 600 deaths a day in the second wave, which is almost certainly untrue.

I'll start by being really clear - I'm not disputing the terrible situation or that we need to get people to follow the rules. With no disrespect to the NHS staff, I don't think they are in the best position to decide how to influence the behaviour of the public, so whether they invited the news in or not is not relevant.

So, for WOODMOUSE
Scaremongering - I wish more were frightened by these facts As Redhead says, the people who are frightened by these facts are not the ones we need to get to. The people who they are frightening are people like my 82-year old Mum who might get his disease even though she is sticking religiously to the rules. They are frightening the vulnerable.
Sensationalism - What inaccuracies were in this report? It’s not about inaccuracies, its about building up something to be more sensational than it is.
Unnecessary - People are still not 'Staying at Home' so the message has to keep being said time and time again. As above – they are not reaching the right audience.
Manipulative - Yes in the positive sense. The report is trying to get a message across. The reporter was scrupulous in how it was done. If we start thinking that the news media should be manipulating us in any way to follow the government guidelines about anything, this society is in a very bad way.
Disingenuous That report could not have been more candid and sincere. They know that they are giving us the facts that will scare the people watching it and are pretending they are giving a public service. Its not a public service.

I read the article at your link. Its nine months old?? I’m afraid I stopped at the part near the end where Fergus Walsh started to say that we were only going to get a tiny proportion of the vaccines we need and it wouldn’t work for older people anyway. So, he got that wrong and that only reinforces the fact that his judgement on these matters is possibly not that good.

Alegrias Whenever I give the number of deaths, I'm careful to mention that it's "deaths registered on ...". The number of actual deaths which have occurred on a given death are almost certainly even higher than those registered.

I don't think any of us on here doubt that this is serious and warrants fair and accurate reporting. The message must get out and bears repeating.

It's likely however, that many of the doubters unfortunately don't actually watch BBC News programmes or any other serious news programmes.

They seem to prefer to listen to their peers on social media and watch Ant and Dec and Love Island....

growstuff

Look at the second graph on your link Alegrias.

Yep, that's by date reported Growstuff There were a lot of deaths reported yesterday that had happened as much as 5 or 6 days ago but didn't get reported until yesterday because the registry offices were closed. This is the same for other graph you showed which is also on date reported

On Channel 4 News the other night the hospital and patients asked for them to film the ward. They were then accused of creating fake news. This is why people need to see what is happening in hospitals. Other countries have been doing this for months I believe. The covid deniers must be exposed as being the true pedlars of fake news.

5th January Growstuff. 2 days ago. The latest numbers will come out at about 4pm today.

I don't think reporters being in intensive care and under everyone's feet is a good idea.

However, having been in A&E, an acute medical receiving ward and eventually Coronary Care this week, I can assure you that things are as bad as they are being portrayed!
There wasn't a bed available in the whole hospital. The deniers should spend some time as a patient, that would certainly persuade them to stay at home!

Look at the second graph on your link Alegrias.

I agree with you WOODMOUSE.

The government graph only seems to show deaths up to 1 January.

Here you are ...

Alegrias1

growstuff I wonder where that figure came from, because this (attached), is from the government website and shows that the maximum deaths per day by date of death has not exceeded 600 so far in the second wave. So the 7-day average can't be 679.

coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths

I fully expect that it will rise in line with the recent increase in cases.

I can't read the cut off date. Please can you tell me what it is.

Maybe these " new " hospitals aren't equipped the same----then you have to have the staff to run them, which there aren't.

I watched that programme and Northwest tonight. The journalist asked why are the new hospitals not occupied? If the local hospitals were overwhelmed? To me this is a perfectly reasonable question. The answer was they are occupied but only a small percentage of beds were being used. However they were not used to capacity simply as they have not got the staff.
When the reporter was on the ICU ward there appeared to be an extreme amount of staff tending to one bed.
My daughter works in a hospital turning patients all the time. She is lucky if she gets the assistance of another member of staff to help with sometimes very distressed patients.
I think the news coverage is sensationalist and frightening to vulnerable people. Most people do and are still following the guide lines and are now lonely and depressed not seeing their families. The people who have ignored the guidelines so far are not going to change their ways no matter how dramatic the news comes across, The news coverage should be honest straightforward and unbiased. Regarding the statistics on deaths the bottom line is the general public just want the truth without dramatics.

I reckon that because some of the news has been overdone that if/when someone develops a " winter illness " such as a cough, that it's naturally Covid so panic sets in and people hyperventilate making things seem worse than they are.

Roughly 17,000 die each winter with seasonal 'flu anyway though that figure can vary as to the particular strain of the 'flu. Deaths are caused by pneumonia mainly.

The majority of deaths you hear about are mostly the ones which occur at this time of year among both the elderly and also those with weakened immunity through illnesses such as cancer and COPD.

Yes, a running commentary is needed if only to tell those idiots that they're not as strong as they think they are when 'flu strikes and it can affect anyone.

My main concern is for the young ones catching the virus as it did with the Asian 'flu, Hong Kong 'flu, and Swine 'flu too,as although their immune systems are much stronger, a 'flu pandemic will find a weak spot and begin attacking. This is why all teens and young people should have had the vaccination first where it's more effective than on the elderly.

Many vaccines are ineffective to the elderly as there are so many strains of a virus and unless the correct vaccination is given at the time of a new strain, it won't work.

I also second that Berylsgranny.