For everyone who's bending the rules!

I have done all that. Conflicting advice all round.

Jaxjacky, it wasn't a criticism, I was agreeing with you! ?

Sorry Marydoll didn’t read all of the other thread.

LongtoothedGran I agree with Marydoll get in touch with the consultant who referred you, explain your situation and your worries. They are the best people to advise what’s best for you.

Jackjaxy, that's what I said on the other thread. The patient has to talk to the clinician who has asked you to shield and also the clinician who referred you for the MRI.

I seem to spend all my time on the phone just now, doing that very thing!

LongtoothedGran

In view of all this , what level of risk is an MRI scan this week? 10 minutes allowed to clean the room and enclosed machine?

If you need to have one you should go and have one x

LongtootheGran you’ve asked this on a separate thread? I doubt you’ll get many different replies, but you don’t seem reassured, so perhaps discuss with whoever referred you or the hospital.

In view of all this , what level of risk is an MRI scan this week? 10 minutes allowed to clean the room and enclosed machine?

I don't follow indie SAGE Growstuff Is it worthwhile?

Keep going with the current restrictions; a really good public information campaign explaining what were doing and why - get people onside and stop the blame culture; as fast a vaccine rollout as we can manage; easing of the restrictions step by step when deaths and hospitalization levels allow; initiate research now to understand how long vaccine induced immunity lasts; identify triggers that will indicate when/if levels of immunity in the community are reducing; contingency plans for further vaccination or hospital provision when needed.

Do you follow Indie Sage Alegrias?

Alegrias1

Herd immunity is a valid target Growstuff it's how we keep measles under control. Herd immunity is achieved through vaccination, not through accepting hundreds and thousands of deaths.

NZ has achieved zero covid through strict border controls and that is unsustainable in the long term.

So what do you suggest? In the short, medium and long term?

Alegrias1

Herd immunity is a valid target Growstuff it's how we keep measles under control. Herd immunity is achieved through vaccination, not through accepting hundreds and thousands of deaths.

NZ has achieved zero covid through strict border controls and that is unsustainable in the long term.

Sorry, yes I should have mentioned vaccination. It has never been achieved without it, which is what the government tried to do.

SuzannahM

I posted this earlier on a different thread:

For the first time in a month our area is seeing a reduction in reported COVID cases (but not deaths, sadly. Hopefully that will come very soon now.)
I don't normally bother with slight changes but these have been reported for nearly a week and it's now quite a substantial change, -22%. We've actually gone from purple to blue. With the vaccinations underway finally I can see some light at the end of the tunnel. That's worth a quick dance round the sofa to me.

My area has also dropped 22% this weeks along with the surrounding 4 boroughs around us, they are all showing the same trend so I suppose it means if guidelines are clearer they are easier to follow and lockdowns - even not full ones- actually work. I feel it is a bit pointless blaming other people, we can't control other people's actions, we can only control our own.

We've even turned pale blue - surrounded by a sea of dark blue and purple.

Herd immunity is a valid target Growstuff it's how we keep measles under control. Herd immunity is achieved through vaccination, not through accepting hundreds and thousands of deaths.

NZ has achieved zero covid through strict border controls and that is unsustainable in the long term.

SuzannahM

I posted this earlier on a different thread:

For the first time in a month our area is seeing a reduction in reported COVID cases (but not deaths, sadly. Hopefully that will come very soon now.)
I don't normally bother with slight changes but these have been reported for nearly a week and it's now quite a substantial change, -22%. We've actually gone from purple to blue. With the vaccinations underway finally I can see some light at the end of the tunnel. That's worth a quick dance round the sofa to me.

Same here Suzannah. It's certainly grounds for some cautious optimism.

There are two main theories for eradicating infection - "herd immunity" and "zero covid". Countries such as New Zealand and those in east Asia aimed for "zero covid" from the start, with harsh lockdowns and restrictions.

The UK has always been influenced by a "herd immunity" approach, which involves hundreds of thousands of deaths and long term effects. As Toby Young (and others) have pointed out "herd immunity" has the "advantage" (!) of killing off the weaker and more vulnerable members of our society.

I posted this earlier on a different thread:

For the first time in a month our area is seeing a reduction in reported COVID cases (but not deaths, sadly. Hopefully that will come very soon now.)
I don't normally bother with slight changes but these have been reported for nearly a week and it's now quite a substantial change, -22%. We've actually gone from purple to blue. With the vaccinations underway finally I can see some light at the end of the tunnel. That's worth a quick dance round the sofa to me.

Washerwoman

But surely the absolute main aim is minimising the number of people who contract this awful virus ?.Even many people who don't become hospitalised are suffering long term effects and taking weeks and months to recover.So yes ICUs need the resources and staff but the absolute key is avoiding contact and staying home as much as possible until the vaccination effort starts to take effect.We could have thousands more ICU beds ideally but how awful if they were all full.

It's not rocket science, is it? The trouble is that some people still think it's some kind of global conspiracy to control populations, the statistics are faked or that 5G or Bill Gates is involved.

There does appear to be some good news. The incidence rate of infection is still high in most areas, but it is generally (apart from parts of the North East and West Midlands) heading in the right direction:

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1APtcBmI4JeTR0Ysufjavgg2gy4MBiHz0Hf9eKIp5BSo/preview#gid=1865138965

There's been a consistent pattern for a few days, so fingers crossed it will continue. People need to hold their nerve.

The government also needs to support those most affected, which is overwhelmingly the poor. That will be their real test, no matter how they try spin things. Watch what they do with Universal Credit and support for the self-employed and small businesses.

But surely the absolute main aim is minimising the number of people who contract this awful virus ?.Even many people who don't become hospitalised are suffering long term effects and taking weeks and months to recover.So yes ICUs need the resources and staff but the absolute key is avoiding contact and staying home as much as possible until the vaccination effort starts to take effect.We could have thousands more ICU beds ideally but how awful if they were all full.

GrannyRose
We are told that children don't get the disease so why are schools closed? We are told it is a virus and yet for some reason it differs from all other viruses that have ever existed in its inability to confer any immunity

Children do catch it but usually (not always) do not get it badly or are asymptomatic but could spread it.

We don't know that much about immunity in those who have Covid as yet because it is a new mutation and as yet we don't have a lot of data.
As a new mutation, of course, no human had immunity.
That is why scientists develop vaccines because viruses mutate constantly and we have no immunity to the mutations.
This particular virus has been around for thousands of years but, for some reason, mutated recently so that it could be passed from human to human.

So why are two people alone on a park bench told they are doing something wrong?
I really can't answer that - if a couple who live together have a rest on a park bench I can't see why that is wrong, but if they are from different households that could be potentially hazardous.

And do you really think that it doesn't matter that we have willingly giving up freedoms that previous generations have fought and died for?
Many fought and many died in WW1 for freedom but many more died from the 'Spanish' flu which spread worldwide and killed far more people just afterwards.

My fear is that some of them are lost forever and we will all be poorer for it.
I think some things may need to change and I don't think that they will necessarily be for the worse - possibly for the better in fact.

I disagree that waves of patients couldn't be predicted Elegran. We don't have orders of magnitude more patients than we did in the first wave, and yet it appears to me that the NHS haven't been given nearly enough resources to cope with even the 10% (?) increase in intensive care patients that we do have. Nobody needed a crystal ball to predict that the winter was going to be a hard one, in fact we were often told that, but I can see no evidence of effective planning from the government to manage that. Their only weapon seems to be to keep us in our houses.

SpringyChicken

If the virus can spread through droplets in the air and we are advised not to touch our faces, I wonder if the virus is caught through our eyes. Will goggles be the next protection requirement?

The physio that visited my husband at home was told she has to wear goggles which she visits people's homes now.